Trying to get my helmet flashes right

[Plynkes]

This probably isn't the right forum to ask this, but Helen constantly surprises me in the amount of minute details she knows about this kind of thing. So while I'm waiting for my application to join the Great War Forum to be approved (so I can ask there), I can't see the harm in trying here. You just never know what folks here might know.

So anyway, as some of you may know, I'm planning to run some games following the exploits of my local regiment in the Great War. The first batch of figures for this were painted some time ago. Not having any info on helmet flashes I concocted my own purely conjectural one just to add a splash of colour to the figures. But since then I have discovered a couple of things, which have made me decide to redo them.

Firstly I have found the divisional patch of the 53rd (Welsh) Division:


Cool, thinks I, Prince of Wales feathers. That'll look nice on the side of a Wolseley. But, then it turns out that the 53rd Div didn't use this badge as a helmet flash (shame, as I like it). Instead they had a complicated system of patches. The brigades were identified by the patch shape:

158th (North Wales) Brigade: Horizontal Rectangles on back of helmet.

159th (Cheshire) Brigade: Triangles on both sides.

160th (Welsh Border) Brigade: Vertical Rectangles.

The individual battalions within the brigades were identified by the colour of their patches.

So, finally, here's the question: By some miracle, does anyone know the colour schemes for the specific battalions? Specifically the 1/1st Herefords, of the 158th Brigade? Found some photos, and they look dark, but of course it's black and white. I suppose I could go with the facing colour (Dark Green as I recall, reflecting their Light Infantry/Rifles lineage), but I bet some boneheaded arbitrary scheme was used instead.

Incidentally, I'm annoyed that our boys were put in the stupid North Wales Brigade instead of the Welsh Borders* one they should be in. North Wales, pfff! I've been to Wrexham, they talk like a bunch of bloody Scousers! The very idea!

So, that's it, chaps. Thanks for looking.



*Which included battalions from the Queen's Royal Surrey Regiment, The Royal West Kents, The Royal Sussex Regt., and the Middlesex Regt. Only the two Monmouthshire battalions actually fit with the Welsh Borders title. What idiot was responsible for this mess?

[Johnnytodd]

This forum often addresses questions of Commonwealth unit insignia: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?s=cbaf75b33a74cdcc1625a1570810066b&showforum=23

[Plynkes]

Thanks, mate. That's the one I mentioned. I've joined up but you have to wait for administrator approval as an anti-spamming measure. I'll go check my emails and see if I'm in yet. Great minds think alike, eh? 

[Helen]

Hi Dylan,

Sorry old chap, I can't assist you with this. I did search my Library an a quick search on the GW forum and Google - no luck I'm afraid.

I'm sure someone will have the info and the GW forum will be the best place for this as suggested by John and you.

Helen

[Plynkes]

Cheers anyway, Helen. Guessed it was a long shot, but you never know.

Got my approval and have posted on the site. Hopefully something will come of it.

[Westfalia Chris]

What I find most interesting is the motto on the scroll beneath the feathered crown - is this a welsh phrase, and if so, what does it say? The words could also, in German, read "I serve" (although in that case there *should* be an apostrophe at the end, i.e. "ICH DIEN´" in place of "ICH DIENE").

[twrchtrwyth]

It is German as far as I know. The phrase came over with the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The feathers have nothing to do with Wales historically I don't think, just a coincidence that the heir to the English throne is the Prince of Wales.

I may be wrong of course.

[Plynkes]

It is supposed to be German for "I serve", but you know how we Brits are with language. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_dien

Supposedly not a Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha thing, but to do with the Black Prince (of Wales) taking the arms and motto of the dead King John of Bohemia (whom he admired) from the field of Crecy (1346), according to legend.

[Westfalia Chris]

It is supposed to be German for "I serve", but you know how we Brits are with language. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_dien

Supposedly not a Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha thing, but to do with the Black Prince (of Wales) taking the arms and motto of the dead King John of Bohemia (whom he admired) from the field of Crecy (1346), according to legend.

So here I go, assuming linguistic conspiracies where there is just the bizarre intermingling of 14th-19th century European nobility!

[twrchtrwyth]

It is supposed to be German for "I serve", but you know how we Brits are with language. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_dien

Supposedly not a Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha thing, but to do with the Black Prince (of Wales) taking the arms and motto of the dead King John of Bohemia (whom he admired) from the field of Crecy (1346), according to legend.

Didn't realise it was that old.

[Remington]

The phrase is still on the 2 penny coin today, if I remember correctly.

Thank you for the link, JOHNNYTODD. Very valuable.

[cdr]

I thought that John of Luxemburg, King of Bohemia, was blind by the time of the battle of Crecy. So what did he do on a battlefield ?

[Plynkes]

Got killed, as one might expect! 

"...for all that he was nigh blind, when he understood the order of the battle, he said to them about him: 'Where is the lord Charles my son?' His men said: 'Sir, we cannot tell; we think he be fighting.' Then he said: 'Sirs, ye are my men, my companions and friends in this journey: I require you bring me so far forward, that I may strike one stroke with my sword.' They said they would do his commandment, and to the intent that they should not lose him in the press, they tied all their reins of their bridles each to other and set the king before to accomplish his desire, and so they went on their enemies. The lord Charles of Bohemia his son, who wrote himself king of Almaine and bare the arms, he came in good order to the battle; but when he saw that the matter went awry on their party, he departed, I cannot tell you which way. The king his father was so far forward that he strake a stroke with his sword, yea and more than four, and fought valiantly and so did his company; and they adventured themselves so forward, that they were there all slain, and the next day they were found in the place about the king, and all their horses tied each to other."

Froissart.

[Plynkes]

Oh well, my query on the Great War Forum has almost dropped off the bottom of the page without any answer being forthcoming; and there's nothing left to paint on my Brits but the helmet flashes.

So, looks like <Shock! Horror!> I'm going to have to make something up. Oh well. Never mind, eh?