Article: Frostgrave Campaign Rule Changes

[Calmdown]

Hi All

For your perusal, we'd like to present an article on the Frostgrave rules changes that we will be implementing to "fix" the campaign system. Yes, I realise that not everyone agrees that it needs fixing, so if you don't agree feel free to ignore the proposed rules!

This also includes a fully defined out of game sequence for those people who feel that the out of game stuff is a bit too freeform!

Article here:

http://www.bad-karma.net/frostgrave-campaign-change-recommendations/

And you can download our rules document here:

http://www.bad-karma.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/BadKarma_Frostgrave_RulesChanges_v1.1.pdf


We'd love to hear your feedback on the article and the rules, and especially love to hear of your experiences if you choose to use our suggestions. We intend for this to be a living document that will evolve with further playtesting and feedback!

Cheers

[Ivan DBA]

Thanks for sharing these.  Your rules for the out-of-game sequence look promising, and I'm going to propose using them at my FLGS.  I particularly like the restrictions on buying and selling magic items between games, as I agree it feels wrong to be able to buy every possible magic item whenever you wish.

[Dalcor]

Very nice, actualy it helps a lot.

[Philhelm]

I didn't read the proposed rules but I agree with the general assessment, although I haven't played a game yet.

I noticed that the experience system seemed heavily skewed in favor of offensive wizards.  A Thaumaturge should be healing and buffing friendly models rather than slinging fireballs, so it's apparent that there would be far fewer opportunities to obtain large experience gains for non-offensive casters.  It's like those old D&D videogames in which thieves couldn't gain experience by using thieving abilities and avoiding fights.

It also seemed apparent that treasure would be too easy to obtain through straightforward purchase.  I would have expected that the most powerful items would be rare finds, and that there would perhaps be more common, stock magical items available for purchase.  It takes away from the items' mystique that they are all mundane enough to purchase anywhere; there is no prestige in possessing the "Fabled Robes of Alakazaar" or the "Sacred Skull of Gorathamos" since any chump can obtain it.

The easy access to gold seems a bit problematic, since with decent early roles, it will be easy to max out on soldiers and useful equipment.  This brings up another, minor problem in that the lower-tier soldiers will quickly become obsolete, unfortunately.

I also agree with your stance on the wizard's death.  The apprentice somewhat helps with the problem, but not quite.  The game entirely revolves around your hero, the wizard, so losing the wizard is probably too much of a heavy blow, particularly with blind luck being a factor.  On the other hand, it should be easy enough to purchase a reserve of Life Potions, which could potentially make the wizard "immortal" with a large enough inventory of them.

Fortunately, these are problems that can be fixed, and I can't wait to start playing.  After playing Warhammer Fantasy Battles and being hit below the belt with Age of Sigmar, Frostgrave has renewed my passion and vigor for the hobby!

[Dakota Mike]

Love the Out-Of-Game turn sequence. 

[Logen]

Great work!

[Harry]

Good stuff.
I especially like the stuff about vendors. I like that the wizard cannot just unload all his magic items and convert them to cash in one go.

I will still be using the "soory mate I just can't shift them but I will take it off your hands" Rule for variable offers from vendors from the last thread. Just to limit the cash generation a bit more.

Also ... I think I would include the "sorry mate I sold the last one of those this morning" Rule ... so that any given item you try to buy may or may not be available. Having read Phil's comment above I might even make that a modified roll based on how rare it is. (expensive it is).

[affun]

These seem very reasonable and well thought out - I definitely like how elegant they are as well. And the vendor rule is just cool.

I think I'd try and have fun thinking up some specific named artifacts if I were to get involved in a campaign. And perhaps some will be added with the expansion 

[Calmdown]

Hi guys, and thanks for all the comments!

Yep, there is definitely huge scope in the game for awesome additions, expanding the tables, the bases, base resources and everything, For those who dont want to do thwt, we created the "recommended changes" section - this was just the stuff that we felt was strictly necessary. If you dont like houserules or want to change the bear minimum, you can stick to those and it will solve the problems we think exist.

The "optional changes" section, though, has scope to grow indefinitely. New items, new tables, more complex vendor interactions (like Harry's variable prices and rarity suggestions), and more. I do believe that was the point of Frostgrave - to make it your own, and it's great that there are so many cool ways to do that!

[Smith]

I do believe that was the point of Frostgrave - to make it your own, and it's great that there are so many cool ways to do that!

This.

Also, stealing treasure.

[Paboook]

I really like your ideas. The vendor rules look great.

[MacavityandMycroft]

Looks good for the most part.

Quick question, though.  You really feel that NO experience reward at all for kills is the way to go?  I can't help but think this encourages a boring meta-game with Wizard Eyes and Walls where wizards never go to battle at all..  Can you elaborate on the choice a bit? (finalizing my abnormal campaign rules to account for xp, would love some perspective)

[Lotan]

No problem!

We wanted the game to be about scenarios, about cool gameplay, encouraging the use of many different spells to accomplish the goal of recovering the relics these wizards came here for. The problem with awarding XP for kills is that it is ALWAYS more beneficial for the wizard to kill someone than to cast that Shield spell. For example, cast Shield, get 20xp (with the increased version of xp), or cast Elemental Bolt and get 40 or so xp, 20 for cast, 20 for kill. You would have to change it so it was almost negligible for it to be worth the wizard cast something other than a killy death spell. Even reducing it to 10xp, you are still getting 50% more xp for killing someone than not, so we felt it was best to leave it out. I wanted to go so far as to only allowing cast XP for the first one or two times a spell was cast per game, but it added unnecessary book keeping and felt a bit arbitrary.

This way the benefit of killing a wizard is that it ruins the opponents chances of completing scenario criteria and preventing debuffs on your guys. Also for the defensive boring game, I will still be hunting wizards, if one has the audacity to step out I will try and take him out, it's just my wizard is less likely to be a machine-gun mage built purely around that fabled wizard on wizard kill! I will more likely buff a guy or two in the early game as the warband advance, then focus on treasure/objective retrieval in the latter game while my wizard hunting squad go about their business!

Hope this helps, M&M!   

[Ddogwood]

The biggest advantage I can see to granting XP for wizards killing things is that it creates an incentive to put the wizard at risk. Otherwise, it is very tempting to hide the wizard behind cover, close to a table edge, and use spells that don't require LOS to be useful.

That said, perhaps instead of granting experience for killing stuff, a wizard could get 150 bonus experience points for making it off the table with a treasure token?

[Argonor]

I find most of your ideas vell thought off, and am probably going to use a lot of them.

Whereas I do get your reasons for it, I do not like the idea of a fixed number of turns, as I prefer a bit of unpredictability (should my thief try to get across to pick up that treasure, risking a bolt doing so, or will the game end too soon for him to succeed, insted of: my thief cannot reach that tresure, anyway, so he may just as well just cower behind these ruins).

I am tinkering with the idea of rollin a d6 after each turn - when the rolls sum up to a set amount, the game ends. At the same time, low rolls trigger extra rolls on the Random Encounter table, so it might be wise to grab the treasure and get the hell out, before too many wandering monsters get on the table.