Annoying people with my endless paint questions

[FramFramson]

Apparently Vallejo's "Model Colour" and "Panzer Aces" are the same formulation, and both lean more towards being opaque. The only difference is the actual colour ("Model Colour" is a general line, while "Panzer Aces" is a specific WWII-tuned lline).

The Vallejo paints which are more akin to regular minis paint is the "Game Colour" line. Plus they have airbrush paints and other stuff.

At least, that's all according to the Vallejo website. In practice, I dunno?

Seems like other lines, like Reaper or P3, don't have different opacities. Just one colour forumlation.

[psyberwyche]

I can only comment on the flesh tone, which I now use instead of Tallarn flesh. Covers fine over black, even when slightly thinned. I've been adding a tiny spot of grey to make the colour match more closely, but that's purely personal taste.

[Major_Gilbear]

Game Colour tends to feature brighter less "historical" colours as a range than Model Colour.

Model colour also have a bit more more pigment and seem thicker.

The Extra Opaque range is basically Vallejo's response to the old Citadel Foundation range.

Mostly though, Vermis is correct about adding more opaque colours to more translucent colours for a basecoat. That means that adding some white, beige or grey to other colours does help them cover better, and you then over-paint them with the "neat" original colour. So you could add grey to red to cover over black, and after a coat or two, you paint again in plain red (which will now cover well and stay bright) for example. I noticed that mixing Bubonic Brown and Sunburst Yellow in a 50:50 mix was in terms of colour and coverage very, very close to Iyanden Darksun - I never picked up Darksun again after that.

@ Vermis:

If you're after flesh tones, I highly recommend Reaper. Good coverage, good workability, natural tones. Lovely stuff basically!

[FramFramson]

Well, I'm now trying experiments with replacements for when my current batches run out, not just of Foundations, but all my paints.

So far the P3 paints seem a little thin to me, and the new GW regular paints are way too thin. The way I look at it, I'd rather have a slightly more opaque paint by default - if I need to glaze, I can thin.

I did like the Vallejo Model Colour's consistency as both basecoat and even regular paint, though it's a bit matte (doesn't really matter since it all gets varnished anyway...) and I don't know if it'll blend well as a glaze. Going to try some Reaper and Vallejo Game Colour. The new GW Base paints also seem reasonably decent. So either way, I've probably got foundation/basecoat colours sorted.

A looooonnnng time ago (about 12-15 years ago), I used to use Reaper, but eventually replaced all my reaper stuff after they'd sat drying out for 10 years. Are modern Reaper paints the same formulation?

[Major_Gilbear]

I mostly use P3, and find their coverage and price to both be good. I happen to like the colours too, and the fact that it's not some 200+ sized product range. I also like the way they thin down for glazing, and although I admit they do take some getting used to, I think such perseverance is worthwhile.

The current Reaper paints are lovely; at least the flesh and metal colours that I've tried are. No idea if they are the same formulation as "before", but I understand that Reaper have been through a few development phases to get to the paints they have now, so perhaps your issues were ironed out during that time?

Vallejo are very flexible - in terms of range, finishes, colours, effects, price, everything. The do glaze well, although I find the opaque pale colours do have a tendency to get pretty "chalky" and look a little rough/speckled. No issues with their dark colours though, and their inks are great (in fact, their black ink may just be my favourite Vallejo paint in the range!). If you have doubts about what can be achieved with Vallejo, note that folks like Angel Giraldez paint almost exclusively with them.

In terms of finish... Well, I add matte medium to nearly every paint, glaze, ink, and wash I use, so therefore everything is ultra-matte finish anyway. That said, I never pay much heed to this when discussing paints as I assume that folks will seal their models to achieve their preferred finish at the end anyway.

[FramFramson]

Actually I quite liked the old Reaper paints. I didn't have any sort of problem with them at all - I just let my old paint collection dry out because i stopped painting minis for about a dozen years.

Out of all the new paints I've tried, I liked the Reaper best, probably, for regular paints, and the Vallejo and even new GW for foundation paints.

The Vallejo "Very Opaque" is almost frightening in how well it covers, but I don't think I'll need that sort of thing very often. Regular "Panzer Aces/Model Colour" should be just fine.

My next goal is to see who has the closest colours to the old GW Elf Flesh and Dwarf Flesh. I know there's the big comparison chart everyone plays up, but I've found it's not really as close as it claims. Unfortunately the local game stores were out of all the Vallejo/Reaper fleshtone paints, so I couldn't check that out.

Actually that does bring up a gripe - I hate the dropper bottles for Vallejo/Reaper, not because I don't like dropper bottles (I prefer pots, but it's no trouble - I can decant) but because I can't see what bloody colour I'm buying! I mean, there are the little labels, but so far it seems like they're tits-useless for telling me what's the actual colour of paint in the bottle!

[Major_Gilbear]

I would suggest that:

• Reaper has a silly range of colours, and I would be shocked if they didn't have a super-close match to the old Citadel flesh colours.

• P3 flesh colours might be close, although I find them all a bit too yellow-orange for my tastes. They were designed and commissioned by McVey though, and lots of old Citadel colours found their way into the range as-is with a new name.

• Vallejo Game Colour is a range purposely designed to be a directive alternative to Citadel, and therefore mirrors much of the older colour range very closely.

• Finally, Coat D'Arms are the old, old Citadel paints which even retain the same names. They are made by the same company, come in the same flip-top bottles, and basically just have the CD'A logo on them in stead of GW's. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get a good match there...

I agree with dropper bottles being better but the labels being too big so that they obscure the bottle. I transferred all my P3 paints into dropper and made my own much smaller labels.

[FramFramson]

It's not so much the label as it is the cheap frosted plastic of the bottle itself. If I want a real idea of the colour inside, I have to shake vigourously, then surreptituously squeeze a bit up the tip when the store employees aen't looking. Needless to say, that's terribly awkward and sometimes not even accurate - I picked up something I thought was a feldgrau, but which turned out to be just a very pale grey because I hadn't shaken it enough in store.

[Mr. Peabody]

It's on a tangent to the OP, but I'll agree with Fram... I usually buy Vallejo paints on the recommendation of someone who has used them ( ie, from a post) and then by the reference number. Can't quite tell what I'm getting otherwise.

Those frosty dropper bottles do preserve the paint brilliantly and I'm thinking of moving my older Citadel paints over to this format to keep them safe.

[FramFramson]

Hi guys, I have a quick Coat D'Arms flesh paint question.

Coat D'Arms is essentially the old Citadel paint line (two generations of GW paints ago) only rebadged.

Elsewhere, it was suggested that the GW's Elf Flesh and Dwarf Flesh did not change between the second generation (old Citadel paints) and the third generation (the most recently discontinued line), such that Coat D'Arms are actually an identical replacement for both the old Citadel range and (more importantly to me) the more recent discontinued versions.

As I've mentioned, the online colour-matching charts between paint ranges don't really mean much to me. The frequently say a colour's close or a perfect replacement when it isn't. So I wanted to ask: Has anyone used the most recently discontinued GW Elf Flesh & Dwarf Flesh who has ALSO used either the older Citadel versions or the Coat D'Arms versions? If so, are they a genuine identical match?

[Malebolgia]

So far the P3 paints seem a little thin to me, and the new GW regular paints are way too thin. The way I look at it, I'd rather have a slightly more opaque paint by default - if I need to glaze, I can thin.

Let me guess...you have new P3 bottles? Because the new formula sucks. Like Major_Gilbear, I love P3 paint...I think it's the best paint you can get. But unfortunately the people at Privateer Press changed the formulae about two years ago! A lot of the paints have different hues now and the coverage is awful. Really, I cannot recommend the current P3 paints to anyone.

Now, if you can find a retailer that has the old pots, BUY EVERYTHING YOU CAN GET

[FramFramson]

Yeah, it was a new one. The coverage was just a thin glaze with no opacity to it at all.

[Mitch K]

It's not so much the label as it is the cheap frosted plastic of the bottle itself. If I want a real idea of the colour inside, I have to shake vigourously, then surreptituously squeeze a bit up the tip when the store employees aen't looking. Needless to say, that's terribly awkward and sometimes not even accurate - I picked up something I thought was a feldgrau, but which turned out to be just a very pale grey because I hadn't shaken it enough in store.

I'll just chime in here: some of the Vallejo model range undergo huge colour shifts on drying. Some of the greys alter (darken) almost out of recognition. If you're the sort of person that shades and highlights by mixing (for example) black or white into a base colour, this is disconcerting to say the least! Looking at the wet paint might not always help if you're looking for a specific shade...

[FramFramson]

I always apply some paint somewhere to see how it looks dry before using it for the first time - usually to mark the bottle/pot, so I always have a reference when using the paint. Not a fan of HUGE shifts, but I expect I'll probably switch to Reaper more than Vallejo.

In other news, Vallejo's "Heavy Opaque" smells awful! It's supposed to be acrylic, but damned if it doesn't reek of solvent smell. It was bad enough that was seriously worried about the fact that I was using it with no ventilation!  


Also, I'm a goof. The old paints I used to use years ago weren't Reaper - they were Ral Partha!

[FramFramson]

Quick questions:

1) I picked up some Tamiya acrylics to try them. Almost the entire label is covered with a huge "FLAMMABLE!" warning label. I checked and they do say they're acrylic, but do these actually have some sort of oil or solvent content not found in most miniature acrylic lines? Will this affect drying time, application, or mixing with other acrylics?

Or are they the same as any other acrylic and Tamiya is just being vastly over-cautious?

2) Bumping this previous question in the hopes that someone who has used Coat D'Arms might see it?

Hi guys, I have a quick Coat D'Arms flesh paint question.

Coat D'Arms is essentially the old Citadel paint line (two generations of GW paints ago) only rebadged.

Elsewhere, it was suggested that the GW's Elf Flesh and Dwarf Flesh did not change between the second generation (old Citadel paints) and the third generation (the most recently discontinued line), such that Coat D'Arms are actually an identical replacement for both the old Citadel range and (more importantly to me) the more recent discontinued versions.

As I've mentioned, the online colour-matching charts between paint ranges don't really mean much to me. The frequently say a colour's close or a perfect replacement when it isn't. So I wanted to ask: Has anyone used the most recently discontinued GW Elf Flesh & Dwarf Flesh who has ALSO used either the older Citadel versions or the Coat D'Arms versions? If so, are they a genuine identical match?