Annoying people with my endless paint questions

[FramFramson]

This is a question specifically about the old GW FOUNDATION line of paints - Tallarn Flesh, Dheneb Stone, etc. Specifically, these had more pigment/heavier masking and are much more opaque than regular colours.

1) How do the GW replacements compare in terms of actual shade/colour, quality, masking ability, etc.?
2) Who has comparable foundational/masking lines?

Above all, it's Tallarn Flesh that matters and that's the only one where I really care about the exact shade because I use it heavily in my Mediterranean/Indian/other brown skin recipes, but I'm also wondering about Dheneb Stone, Moridan Blue, Mechrite Red, Tausept Ochre, and the browns.

I can get a little Tallarn if it comes to it, but I actually wanted to try using more foundational opaquing paints because they're quite useful (I paint over black primer).

[Vermis]

The newer 'base' colours? Based on my highly scientific sample of three pots, coverage ranges from decent to awful. Avoid Death World Forest, at least, if you want a good, opaque green.

As for colour matching, I'd say forget it. Looks like the new bases match the old foundations as much as the new 'layers' match the old regular paints. Some hints of familiarity, but overall, different.

I haven't looked in a long time, but didn't Vallejo bring out a line of high opacity colours to match (or at least mimic) the old foundation range? Might check again, because I was fond of Tallarn Flesh meself.

[FramFramson]

Thanks Vermis. That stinks - I was hoping they weren't too far off in consistency/quality.    Slight shade changes I can deal with (other than the aforementioned Tallarn Flesh, but as I said, I can get some more for now).

Anybody have any experience with the Vallejo paints? Do they mimic the qualities (if not the exact colours) of the old foundations range?

[psyberwyche]

I had the exact same issue a couple of weeks ago - ran out of Tallarn flesh, my favourite flesh tone, and replaced it with the new Base Paints flesh colour, only to find that it wasn't a match at all. The new base flesh (Ratskin I think) is a bit like Dwarf flesh, but darker and warmer.

I scoured the web for a solution, and found two - Vallejo heavy flesh tone, and Citadel Cadian Flesh. The former isn't too far away, and with mixing, washing and highlighting provided almost a perfect match for my minis. As its in Vellejo's 'heavy' range, it covers like Foundation, which is perfect. Cadian Flesh seemed a slightly better match tone wise, but doesn't cover as well as it's a layer paint.

There is no 100% match for Tallarn Flesh, which makes me sad, but the two paints above are 90-95% there.

[psyberwyche]

Also forgot to link to this: http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Paint_Range_Compatibility_Chart

It's really not bad at all in terms of comparison colours. It'll give you the closest match - only thing missing off here is Secret Weapon washes.

[Col. Aubrey Bagshot]

Try the Reaper HD paints.
Amazing coverage AND a decent colour range...
Far better than the old GW range.

They can be hard to get hold of, but the sets ARE good value if you buy the lot....

I know at least two Golden Daemon winning painters who now use these almost exclusively.

[Elk101]

I'm nearing the end of several Pots of GW Foundation paints, including Tallarn Flesh, so this is a well timed thread.

[Major_Gilbear]

I use the Privateer Press Paints (AKA "P3" paints), which are extremely good. They remind me of the old Citadel paints, which is not surprising as they were commissioned by Mike McVey from the same company that made them originally for Citadel. They also have many direct equivalents to old Citadel favourites (like Hawk Turquoise, Rotting Flesh, Warlock Purple, etc.)

Quick tip for improving the opacity of paints though: add a little talc.

I know it sounds weird, but you basically put three or four drops of paint on your palette, add a brushful of clean talc, and then a drop or two of water to help the paint stay smooth.

The talc acts as an opacifier, and you can follow up the "talc layer" of paint with a "non-talc layer" of the same paint for a very good coverage. It also acts to help make the paint more matte, which can also be a desirable trait.

Like kaolin which also often used, talc is actually just a very finely-ground inert material, and finds it way into commercial paint formulae for this very reason.

Not sure I'd recommend it for blending with or anything like that, but if you're blocking in bright colours over a dark primer or such, it's a tip that I found works a treat.

[FramFramson]

The main thing I'm concerned about is consistency and opacity. I never actually had the chance to use most of the foundation shades, so I'm not attached to the exact colours (except Tallarn) by any means. But I do like they way they cover.

Major Gilbear has some neat advice with the talc, but I'm afraid that's a bit fiddly for me. I'm very parsimonious with my paint and I'm far too lazy to mix the tiny quantities that would be added. So something ready-made is what I'm looking for.  

Seems like Vallejo's "heavy" range is the best replacement in terms of coverage?

[pixelgeek]

Major Gilbear has some neat advice with the talc, but I'm afraid that's a bit fiddly for me. I'm very parsimonious with my paint and I'm far too lazy to mix the tiny quantities that would be added. So something ready-made is what I'm looking for.  

Vallejo have various mediums you can add to paint. Its basically the opaque version of the medium they use to make the paint.

[pixelgeek]

I haven't looked in a long time, but didn't Vallejo bring out a line of high opacity colours to match (or at least mimic) the old foundation range?

They are, IMO, a pain in the butt as they are quite sloppy paints and run even when mixed with another colour. Horrible for blending.

[pixelgeek]

This is a question specifically about the old GW FOUNDATION line of paints - Tallarn Flesh, Dheneb Stone, etc. Specifically, these had more pigment/heavier masking and are much more opaque than regular colours.

The colours have been hit and miss for me. The foundation red they have covers quite nicely but I had some issues with the blue and yellow.

I have a few of their colours that I can't find in any other range (some of their blues) but I actually stick with Vallejo and P3 paints as they are more consistent in terms of coverage from pot to pot and they don't change their colours every couple of years.

[Smillie]

I switched across to Vallejo Panzer Aces Flesh base when I ran out of my last pot of Tallern. I found it to be a reasonable match for the old GW foundation colour and actually prefer it now. I just lighten it for highlights etc.  

Have to say when GW did their last paint change I took the opportunity to switch across to Vallejo now i pretty much only use Vallejo colurs, and haven't bought a GW paint in ages.  

[FramFramson]

They are, IMO, a pain in the butt as they are quite sloppy paints and run even when mixed with another colour. Horrible for blending.

Well, that doesn't sound very good.

Yet you also say you've switched to Vallejo? Or do you mean the regular non-"heavy" Vallejo paints?

[Vermis]

Vellejo's 'heavy' range

Aye, that's the one.

They are, IMO, a pain in the butt as they are quite sloppy paints and run even when mixed with another colour. Horrible for blending.

Oh.

Although... Didn't the foundation paints act the same way?

Quick tip for improving the opacity of paints though: add a little talc.

The talc acts as an opacifier, and you can follow up the "talc layer" of paint with a "non-talc layer" of the same paint for a very good coverage.

I've heard of the same kind of thing, using opaque titanium white acrylic in 'fine art' painting. Never tried it, though.

Have to say when GW did their last paint change I took the opportunity to switch across to Vallejo now i pretty much only use Vallejo colurs, and haven't bought a GW paint in ages.  

I'd almost completely switched myself (mainly coat d'arms and ral partha for me) but I think the new GW range has some decent colours, especially some of the more muted, earthy ones - zandri dust, stormvermin grey etc.* And with more copyrightable names (wish I was joking) hopefully they'll stick with these ones for a while.

*Although those tallarn replacements are weird. Bugmans glow and ratskin flesh - one like a bad sunburn and the other like a bad spray tan. Maybe they'd look okay covered up with elf or cadian flesh, but yeah, there's one reason I'm interested in a tallarn flesh replacement too.

Been meaning to try out some reaper paints (there's one that might be a substitute for ghoul grey) and I'll keep an eye out for that panzer aces flesh meself, too.