The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Mason]

GW release a £100 model to no reaction - is this how far it has gone now that nobody finds it shocking?!

It should do but I guess it was only a matter of time.
The best bit is the paint set that they suggest you get for it......

Archaon Everchosen Paint Bundle
An awesome set of paints for a truly awesome model - this collection of fifty paints will help you to bring out the incredible detail on Archaon Everchosen! He’s an absolutely massive piece of kit.

Only £130....!

[thenamelessdead]

I wonder how many people buy the thing plus the paints and can actually get it looking anything like as good as GW's? Surely that is the only way you can get anything remotely like value for money. All £100 gets you is some grey plastic. It would be interesting to know if GW really know what the target market is because the evidence suggests that little Timmy is being priced out, leaving what must surely be a dwindling number of hardcore fan boys or 'collectors'/painters who are the ones who can do it justice, as described in my first sentence. I personally think the model is attractive by their recent standards but there is no way in hell that I would consider such a purchase if I became active in the hobby.

[Ray Rivers]

Well I'm at least impressed that it took this long before the "Can't enjoy because hate" argument came crawling out.

Hope that wasn't aimed at me.

I'm rather enjoying myself to be quite honest. But it is a real pain in my arse to make decent photos of my minis and post them, to be quite honest, and though I enjoy sharing them with folks, that is not the reason I paint them. Fending off  griefing comments such as "Their too expensive" and "Their too OTT" just isn't worth the bother.

Now back to planning my next purchase...

[Gibby]

For my part, any emnity towards Age of Sigmar is more out of bitterness of what it replaced disappearing, as well as the aesthetic not being my cup of tea and being towards the more super-high fantasy that I'm not a fan of. It's not the only game or fantasy setting to switch me off for that latter reason, that's for sure. I try to keep my moaning about it to this thread, when it's relevant rather than partisan shots every post! I certainly think no less of those who really do like AoS; I envy them in fact. Please do not be put off posting your work on here, Ray.

[Major_Gilbear]

@ Ray:

I think you should keep posting pics, as I always like seeing nicely painted models. I'm sure that everyone else on LAF does too, whether AoS is their thing or not.

I'm pretty sure I've not seen anything rude about your models in your thread either, although I think having the thread title read "Caution: OTT Minis" or whatever is essentially just baiting and could probably be swapped to something less confrontational and more positive instead.

With regards to taking photos, why not explain what you're having trouble with and ask for some tips to help? If anybody can help you with some unexpectedly awesome yet simple suggestions, the LAFers can!


@ Mason:

I don't really get the paint set combo either.  Good painters are good painters regardless of how many colours they have. I also suspect that good painters have all the stuff they need already (because presumably they do enough painting to get/be that good in the first place...!), making it double-pointless.


@ thenamelessdead:

The model is techincally fine (I guess, looking at the pics). I do feel the previous metal Archaon model had much more focus on the anti-hero himself rather than the mount though; and I think I prefer that for a character.

[Vermis]

There is a world of difference between being critical - even extremely critical - of AoS or GW, and harassing people who play/collect AoS or other GW games.

Painting and modelling threads that are good - I mean this - are good no matter the subject. That's why they won't drift past "I like your blue guys, what colour, etc" into "Death to GW!" - the hate is captured here.

There was a time when I would have disagreed with that, but these days I agree. Regimental looks and plays far better in the smaller scales, whereas 28mm looks and plays best at a skirmish level. WHFB also doesn't stand up well to other regimental rulesets these days (including some of Rick Priestley's own later ones), and its charm lies mainly in using the older editions to re-live the quaint old times when wonky rulesets didn't matter because you were being a pioneer playing fantasy miniature wargames in the first place (not that there weren't fantasy rulesets before WHFB, of course). My largely negative opinion of AoS is not to do with the fact that it did away with WHFB or the 28mm regimental premise - both being things I abandoned long before GW did.

Yup to all. Especially the bolded part. I don't grit my teeth because folk buy the game, or about the loss of WFB and another 28mm regiment game, so much as the loss of the world, which will eventually filter down to the loss of a lot of the models, and the doubling down on every negative aspect of WFB 8th barring the huge army sizes. (Which still aren't outside the realm of possibility)

With that in mind, I might grit my teeth at GW fans who imply that GW displays genius in their business decisions and no-one else knows what they're talking about. And true: if I'm so smart, why aren't I rich? But I don't need to be LorrShuggir to imagine that keeping the warhammer world, and creating a smaller scale game by summoning up the remnants of whatever created the LotR rules, would be preferable to a much wider audience including a lot of AoS fans, do I?

That's where Dragon Rampant comes in, for me. Smaller skirmish, using tactics rather than special rules, well able to handle skeketal hordes or goblin/gnoblar alliances, I should think. I just wonder if I should still base the 28mm minis for mass battle games too. I'd hazard it might be easier to get a game of KoW than a game with my single Warmaster army, these days.

GW release a £100 model to no reaction - is this how far it has gone now that nobody finds it shocking?!

I'd need about half a day to type out my reaction.

[grant]

 

[Dim_Reaper]

Hope that wasn't aimed at me.

I'm rather enjoying myself to be quite honest. But it is a real pain in my arse to make decent photos of my minis and post them, to be quite honest, and though I enjoy sharing them with folks, that is not the reason I paint them. Fending off  griefing comments such as "Their too expensive" and "Their too OTT" just isn't worth the bother.

Now back to planning my next purchase...

It's largely because I'm so used to this in general terms of forums, and any discussion of GW (especially, with a very deliberately partisan slant towards discussion of rules, where said argument is most relevant) that I always expect it to be in that context.

In terms of getting those kinds of comments on a painting/hobby thread, that doesn't dismiss the criticisms, but it's utterly inconsiderate. It also shouldn't be off-putting either. I most likely will post pictures of my GW stuff on this forum at some point (although not first. I'll wait 'til I have something more to the forum norm to show first, that's just politeness), but no commentary would put me off. This is pretty normal for Multi-Company fora like this. In fact this lot here seem incredibly polite compared to some other forums. I'm sure I'll half expect the odd comment, but I guess coming from a number of GW forums, this seems like a Mecca of happiness.

I don't wish to be rude, but if you're going to post your work on forums, you do need a reasonably thick skin. Disparaging comments are part of it. I'm not defending them, but they're a reality. If you take general views though (whether they like the models, or the price, or the rules) as a reflection of your work, you're doing yourself a disservice.

With that in mind, I might grit my teeth at GW fans who imply that GW displays genius in their business decisions and no-one else knows what they're talking about. And true: if I'm so smart, why aren't I rich? But I don't need to be LorrShuggir to imagine that keeping the warhammer world, and creating a smaller scale game by summoning up the remnants of whatever created the LotR rules, would be preferable to a much wider audience including a lot of AoS fans, do I?

This. A million times.

I have no business qualifications. But I have been in the GW bubble, almost unbroken, for about 22 years. What I lack in acumen I more than counter with experience. I know the beast. I know how it works, I've seen their ploys, and seen through them a million times. The amount of times I've predicted changes, I wish I'd put money on them, because I could retire to the fecking Bahamas by now.

The way GW conducts itself is ostensibly corporate. I'm a Support Worker (basically a carer but less emphasis on medical), and I've worked privately, under the NHS, and for a Corporate care company. I'll give you one guess as to which one was the most incompetent and stressful to work for. The latter, by miles. There is too much emphasis on Management, on Enthusiasm and "Can Do" philosophies over straightforward critical views. What GW undoubtedly lacks is a number of dissenting voices. I've had a few friends on staff, and GW has a habit of hiring for positivity about the company above all else. This is a practice they have had for years. Tightened ranks, loyal to a fault. They've tried basically every form of increasing sales, apart from listening to their customers.

I'm not saying this would fix all their problems, but it would certainly get a lot of the disgruntled at least to the point of considering a more positive outlook of the company. But it's undoubtedly that there's too much "Yeah, that'll work" and not much "Don't do that, it's naff/shit/stupid/why are you still here Robin/etc". For example, let's take naming principles. It started with 6th Edition, where the names have been getting increasingly naff. I mean, so bad it's barely even funny. I guess it being so bad nobody else will have taken it, so it's legally useful for IP reasons. But whoever thinks these names sound cool should probably be dumped into a vat of shit. Maybe they already do, and that's where they get their ideas from. Who knows.

There are many examples I could take, many of them cheesy even by wargaming standards, but my favourite chew toy is the Khorne character: Skarr Bloodwrath. I mean, you can imagine that keeping them up all night, can't you. What kind of logic thought that up? Did they scatter the section of "Angry" from a Roget's Thesaurus onto a fucking dartboard?

The cynic in me thinks that the writers at GW now run on spite. Like they're deliberately bad, because fuck you customers!

I wouldn't be surprised.

I know a lot of people defend GW for being put off from a good job by all the "haters", but this argument is utterly illogical. What kind of moron would you have to be to defend a "professional outfit" that deliberately doesn't improve because it gets a bit of criticism. If this was any other wargaming company, hell, any other company, this would be called unprofessional.

That Archaon model being £100. The fucking Rackham Dragon was £45. Jog on GW.

That said, if you buy from Forge World, one hundred quid is nothing.

[horridperson]

I admit that I'm hesitating posting a thread about the 30k Night Lords project that I'm embarking on for the reasons that have been discussed on this thread.  I'm more a painter/modeller than a gamer and I prefer narrative style games if I play at all.  The games rules that GW are presenting currently don't interest me in the least but I enjoy painting nice looking models and don't much care where they are coming from as long as they are produced ethically and won't cost me a kidney.

The HH plastics fit the bill.  It's an attractive and affordable set with a fair collection of models at the price point.  Most companies have models that interest me but the games that interest me allow players to choose the models they want to use.

GW offered me my gateway to the miniature painting hobby when I was a kid.  I am grateful for that and feel a great deal of nostalgia for the systems produced during what I'd consider to be their "golden age" within the design studio.  Over the years there has been what I see as a decline from the creative to a more singular vision directing their operations but this realization has for me personally broadened my interests rather than fostering exclusivity.  Where there is a vacume something must fill it.  GW receding from being a driving force or innovator in the gaming market has allowed new voices to demonstrate their worth in contrast.  On the miniature design end I think they have good days but some of the more ostentatious design choices must be the product of too many marketing execs spitballing over an extended power lunch.   

I'm participating in this thread and sharing my musings on the subject here because it seems an appropriate place to discuss the scuttle for good or ill.  I would hope that fellow LAFers whom I have found to be an excellent online commuinity would be respectful enough to limit their corporate analysis to threads like this one rather than disparaging a fellow miniature enthusiast who is offering up their creative endeavours for the community's pleasure.  30k Night Lords thread on Future Wars soon to follow; Be nice .

[grant]

What are we talking about now?

I think I would like to suggest that all posts that contain more than, say, 50 words have the following end tag: TL, DR for "too long, didn't read", followed by a five or six word summary of whatever what the fuck just was said.


TL, DR:  GW something or other.

[Timbor]

I gotta agree... the past 10+ pages I have not read at least half the posts for that very reason. 

[Dim_Reaper]

Does kind of make me wonder though why you lot would be on a forum instead of twitter?

[grant]

Does kind of make me wonder though why you lot would be on a forum instead of twitter?

It's a reddit type convention. Simplifies the message. The library is full of novels.  

Give me a tagline to hook me that convinces me that the previous 8 billion words are actually worth my time. I agree with Timbor: the past 10 pages have been superfluous.

[Hupp n at em]

30k Night Lords thread on Future Wars soon to follow; Be nice .

I hope so! I would love to give it a gander. As I said to Ray, I don't generally care what the subject matter is, I will peruse all the boards here because the standard of craftsmanship in painting and terrain is so high, I can enjoy it even with a smaller interest level in the subject matter. 

[horridperson]

@Hupp n at em

Thanks for validating the my opinions on the spirit of the community here.  That's why I enjoy sharing my own and viewing other people's threads here so much.  Whatever the subject I appreciate the exchange of ideas and the mutual appreciation we have for the craft of model building and painting.