The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Belgian]

Picture of the Games Workshop Deathworld box content along with a picture showing some miniatures for scale.

[Belgian]

I agree.
I am seriously considering a couple of boxes of those, which will be my first GW purchase for a very long time indeed.
I now need to go and lie down.....
 

Just buy them from an online retailler, saving you at least 20% on £80.00 and that's quite some money you save!

[Mason]

Just buy them from an online retailler, saving you at least 20% on £80.00 and that's quite some money you save!

Oh, dont worry, I intend to.
I could not hand GW my money without someone brokering the deal so that I do not feel so 'dirty'.
 

I am not after those Death World efforts, though.
Just some of those Hound thingies.
 

[stone-cold-lead]

Oh, dont worry, I intend to.
I could not hand GW my money without someone brokering the deal so that I do not feel so 'dirty'.
 

I threw GW some cash directly this morning for the SC battletome and warscroll cards because I'm sick of Indie retailers shafting me on pre-orders. 

[Belgian]

Oh, dont worry, I intend to.
I could not hand GW my money without someone brokering the deal so that I do not feel so 'dirty'.
 

I am not after those Death World efforts, though.
Just some of those Hound thingies.
 

Those Gryph Hounds are indeed very tempting!

[Major_Gilbear]

What do ya'll think of the new Death Forest?

Hmm, not especially keen really... And that's without considering the price. 

Not sure, but this "the terrain has capabilities more than just blocking line of sight", which is a central theme in AoS games, looks like it is being introduced into 40K as well.

I like the general idea concerning "purposeful" terrain. It thus serves more than to just pretty up a gaming board and has to be considered in how you play the game.

It was in WHFB, and also in in 40k, before it was in AoS. Actually, a simple form of special terrain rules were also in Epic40k, but I'll put money on it that almost nobody ever gave that edition of the game much play time.

However, in WHFB many players apparently just ignored all the extra rules. 

For my part, terrain needs both some risk and reward, or otherwise it risks either becoming a dominating focus or is simply avoided (in my experience anyway). Obviously for some terrain like fortifications, this is very apt! Other times, it doesn't help the game too much.

I threw GW some cash directly this morning for the SC battletome and warscroll cards because I'm sick of Indie retailers shafting me on pre-orders. 

Yeah, I had a conversation not that long ago with a friend about that very topic! Considering how often this happens, I actually wonder if GW deliberately under-supplies the third-party retailers in order to cash in on the initial release enthusiasm themselves?

[stone-cold-lead]

Yeah, I had a conversation not that long ago with a friend about that very topic! Considering how often this happens, I actually wonder if GW deliberately under-supplies the third-party retailers in order to cash in on the initial release enthusiasm themselves?

I'm more inclined to think it's the retailers at fault. They know how much stock has been allocated to them but they keep taking pre-orders. Wayland have a warning on their pre-orders now stating that there might be delays in supplying items. If it's something that will definitely be restocked like models that will be available for the next few years then fine but limited supply boxed sets or things like books (Disciples of Tzeentch battletome for example) then from now on I'll pre-order direct. I missed out on the Sylvaneth Battle Force set before Xmas and almost missed out on the hardback Tzeentch battletome last month.

[nic-e]

However, in WHFB many players apparently just ignored all the extra rules. 

Most of the (Not all.) WHFB players I set up tables for at work just push It all off the table because it gets in the way. Nevermind working around it and pretending there is some strategy to be had or you know FUN FROM NARRATIVE. Nope, Flat featureless tables are apparently of immense value to the armies of the old world.(Don't start me on 9th age....)

[Mason]

I threw GW some cash directly this morning for the SC battletome and warscroll cards because I'm sick of Indie retailers shafting me on pre-orders. 

Yep, I can see ya point there, as it did happen to me recently with some Judge Dredd stuff.
Claimed to be 'in-stock' and then received email that they would get hold of it in a few weeks.
Suffice to say, that did not happen.

Not in any hurry, though, so I can wait until the early rush is over.

[Major_Gilbear]

I understand completely - same friend I mentioned above also missed out on the Sylvaneth army box (actually, I didn't realise it was limited at the time, and indeed still find it odd that it was).

As much as I like the guys who run it, I must say that Wayland are especially slow in getting stock.

Does GW simply underestimate demand that much I wonder? And I also wonder how many casual purchasers are put off and never make that impulse buy if they can't get something without waiting for re-stock?

Anyway.

Most of the (Not all.) WHFB players I set up tables for at work just push It all off the table because it gets in the way. Nevermind working around it and pretending there is some strategy to be had or you know FUN FROM NARRATIVE. Nope, Flat featureless tables are apparently of immense value to the armies of the old world.(Don't start me on 9th age....)

I don't think a lot of people ever had many pieces of terrain on the table to start with, and I generally observed that woods = woods, and hills = hills, and a house = a house, etc. Regularly, almost no effort was made to roll on the charts to see what features the terrain had when units entered it, as this was considered "stupid" and "unpredictable".

Then again, reading through some of the terrain charts myself, I could sorta see why they might have felt that way...

[nic-e]

I don't think a lot of people ever had many pieces of terrain on the table to start with, and I generally observed that woods = woods, and hills = hills, and a house = a house, etc. Regularly, almost no effort was made to roll on the charts to see what features the terrain had when units entered it, as this was considered "stupid" and "unpredictable".

Then again, reading through some of the terrain charts myself, I could sorta see why they might have felt that way...

That's understandable.I personally never used to really put the rules into terrain because i preferred it to be a back drop to my adventures. What I'm referring to is not a lack of or dislike for random terrain effects, but a desire instead to just whack down armies onto a blank table (i had a request for the wooden board to be removed so they could just have white plastic once!) so you can reduce the game down to the tactical challenge that some people believe it is.

[Hobgoblin]

That's understandable.I personally never used to really put the rules into terrain because i preferred it to be a back drop to my adventures. What I'm referring to is not a lack of or dislike for random terrain effects, but a desire instead to just whack down armies onto a blank table (i had a request for the wooden board to be removed so they could just have white plastic once!) so you can reduce the game down to the tactical challenge that some people believe it is.

That rings lots of bells from the dim and distant past of my childhood games of second and third edition. I recall games being played on dinner tables with vast armies and pretty much zero terrain (a hill made of books, now and then, perhaps?).

I think it actually highlights a problem with the Warhammer rules - at least in those editions (first was a bit different). There was a huge amount of emphasis on minor differences between troop types (strength, toughness, weapon skill, etc) but almost no emphasis on how different troop types interacted with terrain. That's why I found Hordes of the Things such a revelation when I switched from Warhammer to that: suddenly, terrain was vital, because players of certain troop types would be very keen to see as much of it as possible.

So, if you have orcs in Warhammer, they're just orcs: a bit harder to kill than human infantry, and a bit slower in combat. The same troops in HOTT would probably be classed as warband (as would hobgoblins, elven wardancers and chaos beastmen): fierce, fast-moving shock troops. Now, these troops can sweep away other infantry units if they simply beat them (rather than double their score), but won't do that most times against the better infantry (spears and blades). Put them in bad going, though, and they become lethal, because most other troop types suffer a significant penalty for fighting in bad going. Beasts (wargs, wolfriders, giant bears, whatever) are similar.So, the orc/wood elf/hobgoblin/Norseman/beastman player has a huge incentive to have plenty of bad going on the table: not only are warbands and beasts much better at fighting in bad going, but they don't suffer movement penalties in it. And when you add on HOTT's lurkers (suddenly deployed in combat with enemies against troops in bad going) and water lurkers (ditto for water features), terrain becomes an indispensable part of the game. And its placement is actually mandated by the rules.

I'm using HOTT as an example, but the same's true of Dragon Rampant (which has a fair bit of HOTT DNA, as I think the author has acknowledged, and refines the effects of bad going in some interesting ways). And I'm sure it's true of other games. The point is, these bad-going-friendly troop types aren't fringe options (like Warhammer skirmishers - which nobody ever used, as far as I recall), but staples of the game.

It's easy to see why Warhammer went the way it did if you look at first edition and its scenarios (e.g. The Ziggurat of Doom). As an RPG/skirmish hybrid, the detailed stat lines and subtle variations between, say, a goblin and a hobgoblin made perfect sense. The Ziggurat of Doom features six dwarves versus 3d6 goblins (of whom the first six can be hobgoblins) + 1d6 more for the first three turns. The eponymous pyramid has broken stairways and piles of rubble, so terrain is fully incorporated into the scenario - and vital: those dwarves crossbowmen will need as much cover as they can get and can exploit the bottlenecks created by the unbroken stairs.

But once you start drifting into massed battles, individual (rather than group) interactions with terrain become less important. And here, later editions of Warhammer show their skirmish roots. It's a game originally built for situations where a small pile of rubble has obvious tactical advantages, but not one that legislates well for the advantages that a bigger terrain feature might offer to (say) ferocious, loose-order troops or how that same terrain might impair heavily armoured, close-order troops. And while the individual stat-lines were great for forcing the individual dwarf crossbowman to decide whether to risk a long-range shot at the tough hobgoblin in the distance or the greater certainty of taking out a frailer goblin who's less of a threat up close, they often seem a bit superfluous or even fiddly in a massed-battle situation.

[Ray Rivers]

I'm new to the fantasy side of things, so had no idea this wasn't a novel idea.

And yep, it makes sense that while "purposeful" terrain could easily be used to one's benefit in a small skirmish game, it would just get in the way of a large battle.

Back to the terrain itself, even with the photo with the minis in the picture, I still can't get an image of scale and need to see it on a table.

I'm not in a rush either, so, I'll guess we shall see it soon enough.

[Predatorpt]

Since this is the GW discussion...can anyone help a new 40k player (me) assemble a force? I don't have any of the rulebooks yet (there's rumors there's going to be a new edition this year, so I'll wait a bit more before buying then), just miniatures. We can talk by PM  And yes, after all these years staying away from 40k, I got pulled back when they announced that a Primarch would be back 

[Dr Mathias]

Since this is the GW discussion...can anyone help a new 40k player (me) assemble a force? I don't have any of the rulebooks yet (there's rumors there's going to be a new edition this year, so I'll wait a bit more before buying then), just miniatures. We can talk by PM  And yes, after all these years staying away from 40k, I got pulled back when they announced that a Primarch would be back 

Have you narrowed down what faction you might go with?

I haven't played 40K rules since 3rd edition... I will probably be buying the next edition though.