The LAF Games Workshop Discussion Thread

[Belligerentparrot]

The one advantage of the GW box is that the torsos and legs were separate, which was really useful.

Yeah, I found those torsos fantastic for 40K too: making Necromunda gangers, similar doublets are common in the art and the Confrontation-era sculpts! That is why I miss the box. I actually think the separate legs/torsos made for rather clunky looking minis if you built the militia as intended.

Funny to think the Flagellant box from the same era is still for sale. That box was ahead of its time in a lot of ways.

[Hobgoblin]

When I started playing in the early 90s, the table was I think a hangover from an earlier more RPG-ish iteration of the rules. There were other things a GM might think of using the WS stat for in the earliest iteration, it wasn't necessarily just for determining whether you hit your c/c opponent. So while granular differences of WS might not be significant when it came to hitting your opponent, the stat differences might be significant elsewhere.

On a note of pure pedantry, I'm not sure that's quite right - the first-edition rules did nominally include an RPG, but the WS stat was just for fighting. The RPG is very barebones, and there's no guidance at all on using the stats creatively - or even for standard RPG activities such as climbing or sneaking. The RPG is just the combat and magic system plus character generation (which includes skills without any resolution mechanism).

And the scenario provided (The Redwake River Valley) is a more of a series of linked tabletop skirmishes than a proper RPG adventure: there's a lot of player decision-making and the opportunity for some limited roleplaying, but it's really just to shape how the later battles will play out - in many ways, it's a forerunner of the classic scenarios for Warhammer 2nd edition, with opportunities to recruit troops for the key encounters or to lose them in clashes with wandering bands of monsters. It's more Orc's Drift than Keep on the Borderlands. That's not a bad thing - it looks like it would be great fun to play out.

I think it's more the case that the wargames of the 60s and 70s were very big on tables generally - and that Warhammer was put together quickly and not heavily playtested (Rick Priestley says as much, if memory serves, in a really interesting recent YouTube interview). The table is largely unchanged since the first edition (hitting has become one pip easier, and they now bother to provide target numbers for WS over six, but that's about it). For the most part, WS becomes largely redundant after a certain level - in the first edition, there's no difference between having WS 8 or WS 9.

Where the RPG side did play a part, I think, is in having WS go up to 10 (so characters could keep advancing for a long while and eventually be able to fight balrogs, etc., one on one ). In the first edition, WS 10 is marginally better than WS 9 - but the only advantage of being WS 9 is that you're closer to being WS 10, which means you only need a 2 to hit a foe with WS 5 rather than a 3 as at WS 8 or 9. (I'm pretty sure no one ever played the RPG for that long, though I'd love here about it if people did ...)

(After looking through The Redwake River Valley, I'm quite tempted to give it a go with the kids over the Christmas holidays - I just need to be sure I have 2d4 dwarves and 3d4 sea elves to hand! Maybe the Ziggurat of Doom first, though we've played that many times using Song of Blades and Heroes.)

[Hobgoblin]

(After looking through The Redwake River Valley, I'm quite tempted to give it a go with the kids over the Christmas holidays - I just need to be sure I have 2d4 dwarves and 3d4 sea elves to hand! Maybe the Ziggurat of Doom first, though we've played that many times using Song of Blades and Heroes.)

On second thoughts, it could be really good to play out The Redwake River Valley with Mordheim.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Some good news on the MESBG front….

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/the-armies-of-the-dead-fulfil-their-oath-in-new-translucent-plastic-kits/

I like the translucent ghosts even though I felt how Jackson handled the Army of the Dead one of his worst adaptations of the books.

The Gondor building sets look very practical for more than just Middle Earth. I have been able to get Ruins and a Tower but no undamaged buildings yet so maybe now I can.

[beefcake]

I would really love them to return to the old style aesthetic for the models in the Old World.
I'm glad to see the to hit chart back. I get frustrated with 40k having average models hitting targets in melee equally well whether they are pox walkers or a tyranid hive tyrant close combat specialist.

[Malebolgia]

Some good news on the MESBG front….

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/11/20/the-armies-of-the-dead-fulfil-their-oath-in-new-translucent-plastic-kits/

I like the translucent ghosts even though I felt how Jackson handled the Army of the Dead one of his worst adaptations of the books.

The Gondor building sets look very practical for more than just Middle Earth. I have been able to get Ruins and a Tower but no undamaged buildings yet so maybe now I can.

But...why cast them in blue, when they are green in the movies? What a weird choice.

[Daeothar]

They're sort of a light turquoise on my monitor, so perhaps they do move into the greenish spectrum IRL?

[YPU]

The image with 3 of them is a bit closer to green as well, but I do see what you mean. Curious to see what they look like in real life.

[Malebolgia]

They're sort of a light turquoise on my monitor, so perhaps they do move into the greenish spectrum IRL?

From the site: "The Warriors of the Dead and the King of the Dead & Heralds kits have now been recast in clear plastic with a spectral blue tint for a unique impact on the tabletop."

Compare it with this:


Totally different hue. Feels like a missed chance.

[Daeothar]

Yup; that's quite the difference!

Perhaps the cyan pigment was on discount? 

[Mammoth miniatures]

Yup; that's quite the difference!

Perhaps the cyan pigment was on discount? 

Honestly it's probably this - a primary colour based plastic is probably cheaper to buy by the tonne than a mixed colour. GW are nothing if not frugal when it comes to material costs - I remember when plastic microbeads were made illegal in cosmetics, GW switched their texture paints to use plastic microbeads because they were suddenly cheaper than anything else as suppliers tried to clear out existing stockpiles.

[3Fingers2]

Just seen the Christmas bonus the staff are getting , certainly lot better than the £50 I’m getting 

[Mammoth miniatures]

Just seen the Christmas bonus the staff are getting , certainly lot better than the £50 I’m getting 

For a full time minimum wage retail worker it's about a month and a half of extra pay or two months of mortgage/rent put aside for a rainy day. It's doubly interesting when you think that GW isn't a cooperative but has in recent years seemed to act more like one than some actual cooperatives.

[Grumpy Gnome]

From the site: "The Warriors of the Dead and the King of the Dead & Heralds kits have now been recast in clear plastic with a spectral blue tint for a unique impact on the tabletop."

Compare it with this:


Totally different hue. Feels like a missed chance.

One of the rare occasions where I prefer the divergence from screen accuracy.

[boneio]

For a full time minimum wage retail worker it's about a month and a half of extra pay or two months of mortgage/rent put aside for a rainy day. It's doubly interesting when you think that GW isn't a cooperative but has in recent years seemed to act more like one than some actual cooperatives.

It's really good at the retail employee end; it's not exactly small change even on a roughly average salary; but it's still against a backdrop of them generally underpaying for professional roles because people want to work there. It's how they end up with a pretty young, somewhat naive workforce in my opinion.

As an example, I know someone who left a role in finance at GW for a £10k payrise and better working conditions. That's a better deal than a possible Christmas bonus.