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Other Stuff => Workbench => Topic started by: joroas on 24 March 2012, 08:50:19 AM
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Games Workshop is launching a staggering new Citadel Paint range, and it's nothing short of a painting revolution. We've developed an incredible system of painting that will enable hobbyists of all levels to achieve fantastic results very easily. There are 145 new Citadel Paints for you to choose from, each one specially designed for a particular painting task, from basecoating your models, to shading, adding highlights, to covering your bases, and more besides! There are even new paint sets, which are ideal for any beginner, and Citadel Palettes to help keep your paint in the right place.
This is quite simply one of the biggest developments Games Workshop has ever made, but don't take our word for it - visit your local Hobby Centre this weekend for an in-store demo to try out these incredible new paints for yourself.
(http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2310470a_CitadelPaintsNewsletter1.jpg)
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Will go in and have a look, but at first read it sounds like Foundry's three colour system..........
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How original. They really are at the forefront of paint system solutions. Or so they'd like pre-adolcents, young teens and clueless parents to think. ::)
Snarky comments aside I think it is a good thing they expand their paint range. Citadel paints are often available in toy stores if you need something in a hurry.
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But most importantly, have they brought back tentacle pink and scaly green?
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boisterously overdone advertisement as always lol
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But are they still in pots that dry up within a couple of months?
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Effectively they have replaced all of their paints, the old ones will disappear to be replaced with new, sometimes similar, colours.
There is a base set, a larger layer set, a small shade set, a dry brush set, a handful of glazes and some texture paint for basing.
They are not out for two weeks but a GW store near you will have a colour chart and list you can take away and are doing demos.
As the old paints are phased out there may be some bargains to be had.
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But are they still in pots that dry up within a couple of months?
The only GW pots I've had consistently dry out on me are the old black hard plastic tops, both the screw-on and the flip-tops. The latest ones I've had no problems with. That said, I've heard the pot design IS slightly updated on these, to prevent paint buildup at the cap hinge.
I don't expect I'll get the chance to try these new ones out until maelstrom starts selling singles, but I'm looking forward to it.
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Effectively they have replaced all of their paints, the old ones will disappear to be replaced with new, sometimes similar, colours.
There is a base set, a larger layer set, a small shade set, a dry brush set, a handful of glazes and some texture paint for basing.
They are not out for two weeks but a GW store near you will have a colour chart and list you can take away and are doing demos.
As the old paints are phased out there may be some bargains to be had.
Not to miss a chance to bash GW, but they did say no current colour is being retired. The line is only being expanded, with the existing paint colours simply being renamed.
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There's new pots on some of the paints:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GOtrqEGVWPY/T23Dhpv_lqI/AAAAAAAAAgY/nU7rY55Iol0/s640/blogger-image--830723350.jpg)
More pics and waffle on the blog:
http://deadleadproject.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/new-gw-paints-have-new-pots.html (http://deadleadproject.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/new-gw-paints-have-new-pots.html)
(Apologies for the poor formatting on the post, I was covertly blogging on my phone...)
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Not to miss a chance to bash GW, but they did say no current colour is being retired. The line is only being expanded, with the existing paint colours simply being renamed.
True, but it does say on the conversion chart (TM) that they cannot guarantee the shade or consistency............
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True, the 'base' paints are thinner than the old 'foundation' paints (which is probably for the best IMHO)
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I wonder what's different in the formulation for "dry brush" paints.
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I have a huge pile of the old paints and a load of Vallejo, so I won't be rushing to jump on this.............
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Base Paints: Essentially the modern equivalent of Foundations. Bright colours, with good coverage. Very good at what they do.
Shade Paints: Essentially washes, but less smelly and they sit better on the model.
Layer Paints: Equivalent to the normal Citadel Colour paints we have known for many years, but they seem more like the older style pots (i.e. the white-lidded, 80's and 90's colours before the black screw-tops).
Dry paints: Thick paints, with lots of pigment. You can remove loads of paint from your brush and there is still a strong pigment. You can still drybrush with layer paints, but these seem to be good for mass drybrushing. I haven't got the hang of it quite yet, but soon! I think they look like chocolate mousse!
Glazes: Similar to the wash, but more like watered down inks. They do not 'dye' a model, rather give it a different tone. Very useful for skin, magical armour things like that.
Texture: A quick-fix way of doing bases, GW will continue to sell basing materials though, this is an alternative rather than a replacement. I quite like it as a quick fix! The one I used this morning looks like baby-poo, but once drybrushed it looks like one of Steve Dean's miniature bases.
Technical: There's the Liquid Greenstuff we have come to know and love, the 'ardcote gloss varnish and a glaze medium. Very good for thinning the paints rather than using water.
I am in love with the new paints, they are incredibly good quality and will be replacing my P3 paints. As said in previous comments above, they are very accessible too. From now on all GW articles will be written with a particular style of painting in mind. It is quick, effective and I know it works, because I have followed a guide!
The key is that you CAN change to it, but you do not NEED to.
It has taken GW 3 years working on these to get them to a point they are happy with them. They have been tested in labs with lasers to get the correct density. The coverage should apply across the whole range too. Very professional, very good and I think the best release of this year so far in the Wargames world for me at least. :)
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How original. They really are at the forefront of paint system solutions. Or so they'd like pre-adolcents, young teens and clueless parents to think. ::)
Snarky comments aside I think it is a good thing they expand their paint range. Citadel paints are often available in toy stores if you need something in a hurry.
I am neither of those things, yet, I do belive that they are pushing the hobby forward, and yes, I do belive that they are actually making progress in the world of paint systems. Especially for the people that perhaps not are the best painters in the world, like my self, that most certianly could use the help of paint systems.
I for one are looking forward to test the new paints and whatnots that they have released.
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...I for one are looking forward to test the new paints and whatnots that they have released.
me too, although it's mostly the excessive postage that has stopped me investing in the foundy triads...
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Does that mean that they're getting rid of the Washes? If so, I want to lay in a supply of them, as there are four that I use all the time - Gryphon Sepia, Devlan Mud, Badab Black, and Ogryn Flesh. It would be a shame to see them disappear!
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There's twelve 'shades' - presumably Reikland Fleshshade is the equivalent of Ogryn flesh, Seraphim Sepia replaces Gryphon Sepia etc - unfprtunately the didn't have the whole range instore today, I only saw the green and blue, but they performed similarly to the current green and blue (although admittedly I use them less than the browns, so my experience isn't that deep with those particular hues...)
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They have a list on their website comparing the old paints with the new ones. They caal it the Conversion chart. I hope their "new" Devlan Mud and Badab Black is as good as the new ones or else I have to hoard.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2320032a_Citadel_Conversion_Chart)
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There's new pots on some of the paints:
I buy few paints from GW nowadays. The soft plastic pot lid doesn't stand up and sags down so as to be unusable.
Will these new pots be any better?
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There's a triangular plastic bit (just visible in the pic) that holds the lid open at a 90 degree angle, which would prevent the usual sag issues (although it's only on the new pots, not on the base and layer pots)
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Games Workshop is launching a staggering new Citadel Paint range, and it's nothing short of a painting revolution. We've developed an incredible system of painting that will enable hobbyists of all levels to achieve fantastic results very easily. There are 145 new Citadel Paints for you to choose from, each one specially designed for a particular painting task, from basecoating your models, to shading, adding highlights, to covering your bases, and more besides! There are even new paint sets, which are ideal for any beginner, and Citadel Palettes to help keep your paint in the right place.
If there is a painting revolution, GW is pretty late in joining it:
I'll leave the pot type pros and cons aside (I am a drop bottle man myself) but...
High pigmentation is standard with all major model paint companies.
-Vallejo has over 300 high basic paints and about 150 specialized paints like textured, airbrush, primers, washes, dry pigments.
-Foundry has 266 paints in their catalog and has been doing triads/palettes for years.
-Reaper Master Series Paint, my personal favorite, have 216 basic paints in their range and have been doing triads/pallets for at least five years.
-Tamiya may not have as wide a range as the others but they are constantly providing the hobby market with dry pigments, crayons, markers, texture paint etc.
There is two areas (beside shameless marketing) where GW has an edge over the others, which, whatever they like you to believe, doesn't have to do with the paints. The first is Citadel paint availability and the second is a permanent painting staff which provides good tutorials.
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Okay.
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Thanks, Myincubliss - that clears things up a bit. Phew! That said, I'll probably pick up a few each of the four washes that I use all the time, just for peace of mind.
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So the formerly insanely-limited Citadel paint range now has... about 2/3rds the range of the Reaper Master Series paints I prefer, and are still more expensive... yay?
That said, I have become a fan of their washes, so as someone said upthread, their Devlan Mud, sepia and other washes are hopefully basically unchanged despite new silly names to replace the old silly names.
Must admit I'm still irritated GW ditched their inks a few years ago, their red ink was the best, reddest ink I'd ever found. Most artists inks are too orange for me, as is Reaper's red. GW had an actual, proper red ink, it was great... and then they binned it. Meh.
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and now a word from our sponsors...
The key is that you CAN change to it, but you do not NEED to.
It has taken GW 3 years working on these to get them to a point they are happy with them. They have been tested in labs with lasers to get the correct density. The coverage should apply across the whole range too. Very professional, very good and I think the best release of this year so far in the Wargames world for me at least. :)
Just teasing matey, but the forth is strong in this one lol lol lol
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As GW usually balls something up whenever they change anything, and (as cynical as it sounds) they tend to only ever make things crapper so that they can make them cheaper and charge us more I will be stocking up on the current inks/shades what ever the hell there calling them these days to avoid having to get used to using what ever the "new" stuff will be like in the future. Hobby craft hear I come!
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I WOULD like to hear a comparison between the new inks and old inks. Gryphonne Sepia, Devlan Mad, etc.
To be honest though, I think they'll be fine. It's a lot easier to just keep an existing formulation and slap a new label on it than it is to re-formulate 70+ existing paints, so inertia actually works in our favour.
Doesn't mean that's guaranteed, but I see no reason not to take the "we haven't changed the formulation" claim at face value yet.
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It probably depends on if they changed the manufacturer of their paint. If it's a new company everything probably will change. I like a lot of their paints and washes but I got tired of their horrible bottles and my paint drying out and switched to Foundry. Reaper is on my list to try probably before I buy more GW.
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I buy paints from everybody... 8)
But I must admit I have a soft spot for Foundry and Vallejo.
I have recently tried some Andrea paints. Wow... talk about max pigmentation!
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Doesn't mean that's guaranteed, but I see no reason not to take the "we haven't changed the formulation" claim at face value yet.
I'm waiting to see, as the guy in the shop said none of the old paints are changing, but when I later asked if it was just me or did the base paints seem thinner than the old foundation paints he said 'yes, everthing's been improved'...
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Latest White Dwarf says "be aware that as the new paint range comprises brand-new formulations we can suggest close, but not exact comparisons", and so both Necron Abyss (almost black) and Regal Blue (a rich dark blue) are both replaced by Kantor Blue... methinks it's a cunning ploy to get us all to panic buy Devlan Mud...
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Hummmm Have you the price ???
My wife roars !!! ;-)
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My interest in this "revolutionary" paint system from gw is none existent, I only use gw washes, and scorpion green on rare things, with my interest in foundry getting stronger, and still having plenty of the mp paints, I will not be investing in a company who have consistent poor quality goods
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Latest White Dwarf says "be aware that as the new paint range comprises brand-new formulations we can suggest close, but not exact comparisons", and so both Necron Abyss (almost black) and Regal Blue (a rich dark blue) are both replaced by Kantor Blue... methinks it's a cunning ploy to get us all to panic buy Devlan Mud...
Ah crap, well, there goes that. I might just go out and buy an extra pot of each wash myself (I paint in such small quantities that any further stock would dry out long before I got to use it).
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There are some very nice burnt umber and Sienna washes from baVallejo
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I've got all my minis based using Graveyard Earth.
After looking at the conversion chart, I'm starting to hyper-ventilate.. :o
Is it time to freek out yet ???
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Is it time to freek out yet
Probably not. First of all, Vallejo Game Color's Earth is a slightly more saturated version of Graveyard Earth, and that one's not disappearing. Second, I wouldn't trust those conversion chart swatches for any sort of purchasing decisions. If you've got a GW store nearby, just bring a Graveyard Earth pot along, and see how close that suggested substitute is. Khemri Brown is really close to Graveyard Earth, so check out the suggested substitute for that as well.
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Phew, today was an interesting day. Drove all over Toronto and every single store that stocks GW paint in the city was out of Devlan Mud (and quite a few were out of a LOT of stuff, including most inks).
Had to drive well out of town to find some of that crucial Mud (if you live in the Toronto area: I went to Conspiracy Comics, at their Oakville location near the Oakville GO station).
So I've got my little hoarded stash now: 4x Gryphonne Sepia, 4x Devlan Mud, 2x Ogryn Flesh, and 1x the rest. That about matches my consumption, with an extra Sepia and Mud for good measure, in case I knock over a pot like a doofus - wouldn't be the first time I'd done it. I even bought the red and green inks which I'd never picked up before. Should be enough to last many many years at the rate which I paint (damned slowly!).
Be warned! If you mean to pick up some of the old inks, I'd get on that really soon!
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Vallejo Game Color's Earth is a slightly more saturated version of Graveyard Earth
Ah ha!
Thank you! I like Vallejo so that sounds like a great substitute. Will give it a try.
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I've got all my minis based using Graveyard Earth.
After looking at the conversion chart, I'm starting to hyper-ventilate.. :o
Is it time to freek out yet ???
Humbrol makes an equivalent of Graveyard Earth in their new acrylics series. I can find the number for you if you're interested.
Even though I'm fascinated by the new stuff GW is bringing out here... Ray's situation is exactly why I don't use GW unless I have to: You never know if this or that colour is there in 2 years time. 0
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For fellow Devlan Mud junkies, despair not! Vallejo's transparent "smoke" is a pretty good substitute. It just needs slightly diluted IMO.
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Smoke is good stuff, and I used to be a Vallejo Smoke junkie years back, but it's really quite different from Devlan Mud. Mud is quite neutral in tone, but with a lot of different tints in it. Smoke is much more yellowish, but it can be layered until it's almost black. It goes beautifully on top of snakebite leather and other such tones. They both have their uses, but they're really not interchangeable. That's even ignoring the fact that Smoke isn't a wash - you'll never get it to behave like a wash just by diluting with water. I have no idea what flow improvers the old (I guess we're calling 'em that by now?) GW washes contain, but I haven't been able to replicate the effect with what I have available.
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Funny, my smoke doesn't seem to have any yellow tint to it. I thin mine with a vallejo product meant to thin paints for airbrushes (I think) it doesn't act exactly the same, but I have been able to achieve results that are "close enough" for me since all Devlan Mud in a three state area seems to be gone forever. >:(
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Are they keeping blood red, bleached bone, snakebite leather, shining gold and bestial brown? These are the only 5 GW colours i use - but i use them a lot!
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Everything out the window. It might as well be an entirely new line - you may find some new colours which are quite close (and hopefully close enough for your purposes), but nothing identical.
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I'm starting to hyper-ventilate again... :o
;)
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Wow... there isn't even any Mud on ebay (I went to peek out of curiosity). Maybe I should've bought those other pots and re-sold them!
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It is worth noting that the Vallejo Game Color line is a pretty close match for the GW line. No washes or foundation paints and I have found some a bit thin but the colors are quite close.
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FYI folks, there's a review (http://taleofpainters.blogspot.de/2012/02/review-army-painter-warpaints.html) that claims Army Painter inks are a 1:1 match for the old GW washes.
Specifically the Strong Tone Ink is supposed to match for Devlan Mud, the Light Tone Ink is supposed to match Gryphonne Sepia, and the Dark Tone Ink is supposed to match Badab Black.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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Specifically the Strong Tone Ink is supposed to match for Devlan Mud, the Light Tone Ink is supposed to match Gryphonne Sepia, and the Dark Tone Ink is supposed to match Badab Black.
Actually, Fram, I think that he only says that Strong Tone matches Devlan Mud. He then says that IF the others match, he needn't buy GW washes again.
I made the same mistake as you the first time I skimmed it.
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True. But also people's perceptions are also somewhat subjective, so by asking I'm hoping to get more data points than "one guy on the internet says...". ;)
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Don't flip out too much guys, I acquired several of the new paints over the weekend and have been happy so far. I picked up the replacements for Devlan Mud and Ogryn Flesh, and some of the browns, and the new ones work just fine. I'm not sure if it's been posted but here is a conversion chart:
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat730002a&categoryId=6800002a§ion=&aId=21600002a&_requestid=1194613
Personally I think it was unwise of them not to keep the old names for very close matches (mainly because I don't want to have to do homework to buy paint) but my fears have been put to rest. Obviously I can't speak for all the new paints, so some of the new ones may not be a close equivalent.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm mixing old and new washes on my half-finished Round 7 LPL entry and I can't tell the difference.
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Thanks, Dr M - a useful link.
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If it makes you feel any better, I'm mixing old and new washes on my half-finished Round 7 LPL entry and I can't tell the difference.
thanx that does make me feel beter... :) I started to freek out... ;D
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I found what we all have been looking for to end the speculation about the new range.
It looks as if GW screwed themselves big time with the new change of names, formula and actual reduction of colors in their basic range. What's worse is that the new "foundation" paints don't match the old formula...
I love the "thinned down paint because our customers are too stupid to do it themselves" being the reason of GW releasing that crappy "layering" paint lol
http://independent-painters.blogspot.se/2012/04/new-citadel-paint-range-review.html?showComment=1333994603141#c5858782537914091241
The guys also posted his review directly on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lyLGC4cK6lQ
As for Vallejos washes, sadly they are not even close to the GW washes imo.
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Interesting video, I'm back to being unhappy now :)
I'll let you guys know how I feel about the reds when I get to them, that's the kicker right there.
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wow, I was looking into all this for a while and I am coming to the conclusion I cant be bothered to be upset about it. I'll go into a store and buy whatever paint colours strikes my fancy at the time, I simply cant get worked up about exact matches or the like. How zen. :D
I am currently mainly wondering why they changed paint supplier but I guess the answer is a boring financial related one.
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The paint chart recommended closest matches to Snakebite Leather and Bestial Brown don't look remotely like them... :(
Two of my favourite staple colours. What a pisser.
About the only thing i actually buy from bloody Games Workshop, and now they've gone and screwed it...
I think i shall have to become a GW-hater like everyone else now ;)
lol
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Vallejo Game Colors Cobra Leather and Beast Brown are good matches for those two, CB.
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I have used the new Dheneb Stone (I forget its name, I believe a word that starts with R, then flesh), and could not tell it apart from other miniatures I had done using the original foundation. Granted, it was a base of Dheneb stone, washed with Badab Black and then dry brushed Dheneb Stone again, but when that was all done, I saw no difference.
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It is worth noting that the Vallejo Game Color line is a pretty close match for the GW line. No washes or foundation paints and I have found some a bit thin but the colors are quite close.
What do you mean, Aaron? Vallejo Game Colour DOES have washes/inks? Plus the Vallejo Pigments series (or what ever it's called) also has some washes, and these do not seem the same as the Game Colour ones. A bit more like GW washes maybe? I haven't really compared them too much, as I use the Pigments inks now.
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Sorry for not being clear. As far as I know, the Game Colour line only mimics the old basic GW paint line. No washes or foundation paint clones that I know of.
I just popped over to the friendly local at lunch to check out the new paints. My pal behind the register was curious about the changes himself so he popped open the new supposed equivalent (Agrax Earth or something like that) and dabbed some of it and some Devlan Mud from his personal bottle onto a piece of paper side by side. The new one seemed a bit more brown and not quite as dark, but that could be because his Devlan Mud was slightly stronger from evaporation (he's had it for a while since he doesn't paint much).
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Vallejo Game Colors Cobra Leather and Beast Brown are good matches for those two, CB.
Thanks Aaron. Trouble is i always find VGC dries shiny (whereas most VMC is generally reliably flat matt). Ah well, i shall no doubt come up with some suitable substitutes in due course... :)
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Sorry for not being clear. As far as I know, the Game Colour line only mimics the old basic GW paint line. No washes or foundation paint clones that I know of.
You're only partially right, Aaron. No foundation paints for sure, unless you want to count the brushable primers as such, and they're not part of the Game Colour range anyways.
However, the Game Colour range does have washes/inks: paint numbers 85-94 if I recall correctly. The Game colour range has these days around 104 different paints, not the original 72 colours which were almost directly copied from GW paints. These additional paints were added some time after the original set a few years back (the paint rack being expanded with an attachable rack section). And they even contain some nice colours that the GW range didn't have (I think), like the Metallic Medium, Off White, Steel Grey and some others.
So your information is perhaps outdated, or your local source of VGC doesn't have this additional set? Anyways, that is the situation.
As to the shiny problem Cpt. Blood mentions above, I have found this with the black colour especially, not so much on others? Anyways, if I want a completely matt finish on paint, I use Vallejo Matte Medium which takes it away nicely. The latter is from Model Colour range, I think?
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I found what we all have been looking for to end the speculation about the new range.
It looks as if GW screwed themselves big time with the new change of names, formula and actual reduction of colors in their basic range. What's worse is that the new "foundation" paints don't match the old formula...
I love the "thinned down paint because our customers are too stupid to do it themselves" being the reason of GW releasing that crappy "layering" paint lol
http://independent-painters.blogspot.se/2012/04/new-citadel-paint-range-review.html?showComment=1333994603141#c5858782537914091241
The guys also posted his review directly on YouTube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lyLGC4cK6lQ
As for Vallejos washes, sadly they are not even close to the GW washes imo.
Thanks for the video, it explains a lot.
Such a shame, as everyone else says there are certain gw colours that i tent to use more than others. The only reason that I havent already moved on to the cheaperm vgc is because of the dropper bottle... I feel that you waste alot of paint if you only require a small amount; unless of course i'm doing it wrong. In which case does someone care to enlighten me lol
*shrugs* time to explore the market I suppose, i'll not exclude gw paints from my search. Although to be fair With my all time low productivity levels, I can't imagine me requiring to purchase paint for a wee while.
Cheers
Andy
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So your information is perhaps outdated, or your local source of VGC doesn't have this additional set? Anyways, that is the situation.
Yeah, my local shop still only has the original VGC set. I think the GW and VMC stuff sells much better for them. Thanks for the clarification. I'll have to look into the VGC line and see if t here is anything useful I want to get them to order in for me.
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No problem, Aaron. The additional paints would definitely be worth getting, if you can persuade your local shop to stock them. It might even perk their sales up a bit for Game Colour? Or if they would get the newer washes which seem better to me? They should be available separetely, I am not sure if they're part of the Auxiliaries or Pigments ranges?
It seems Game Colour is somewhat underappreciated range for some reason? People seem to prefer Model Colour even if you had the same shade in Game Colour. In my experience Game Colour is more durable on minis, so I always try to use them before going for Model Colour. But it's true MC has more useful shades for historicals, straight off the bottle.
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I wonder what's different in the formulation for "dry brush" paints.
Added dry ingrediant?
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Is dry ingredient another way of saying less water? lol
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Added dry ingrediant?
I'm sure it has some sort of retarding additive as well. If it were simply more pigment to binder, it would dry out and cake really quick (faster than usual that is lol). So, I'm guessing pigment, acrylic binder, retarding additive, and perhaps water. I also think adding significantly more water to it will affect its handling and performance.
I picked up a pot of the new 'dry' white to check it out. It's unusual. I haven't really used it yet in a 'controlled experiment' though.