Lead Adventure Forum
Miniatures Adventure => Future Wars => Topic started by: gorillacrab on 13 August 2015, 07:05:06 AM
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I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything about Osprey's forthcoming Black Ops tactical game by WSS editor Guy Bowers? The game is due out in the early Fall but I have not seen a hint of a preview discussing the game and how it will play. Just curious.
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I might know a thing or two... what do you want to know? ;-)
Guy
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I think anything info-wise in addition to Osprey's marketing blurb would help?
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Obviously you'd have to kill us after giving us the info!
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I would like to know how this is different to Force on Force or to the new Spectre rules?
I have ready the Osprey text and do not know where it fits in.
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Ok... Here's a basic rundown.
Black Ops is a skirmish game for about 4 to 20 figures a side (although I've played it with bigger forces). It's aimed at two players but there are rules for 3 and 4 player games (co-op or versus). The better quality the troops, the fewer you will have. There are several factions (I think they all made it into the book) so you can choose militia, fanatics, mafia, law enforcement, professional, ninja (just for fun) and elites. Players can also hire specialists and there's a few basic rules for different methods of insertion (Helio, HALO, Scuba).
Basic play involves D6's and a single pack of playing cards. There are two 'modes' of play, the standard wargame and the stealth mission. In the stealth mission, one side has an objective to complete - that determines success or failure. It may be take a hostage (rescue a prisoner) or sabotage a key point. The defender places guards which move according to a table, modified by the noise the attackers make. If the attackers are spotted, the alarm may be raised and the game reverts to a standard wargame. There are 36 possible stealth missions.
Combat is two step - hit and save. A game will take typically an hour or two, depending on how daring the players are.
There are rules for suppression and vehicles. There are also a few suggestions for 'five minutes from now', if people want to run 'advanced warfare'. The only thing I couldn't fit in was 'Metal Gear'. Ah well!
Hope that gives a taster.
Guy
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Ok - Thanks
I will buy it and try it.
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Ok... Here's a basic rundown.
Black Ops is a skirmish game for about 4 to 20 figures a side (although I've played it with bigger forces). It's aimed at two players but there are rules for 3 and 4 player games (co-op or versus). The better quality the troops, the fewer you will have. There are several factions (I think they all made it into the book) so you can choose militia, fanatics, mafia, law enforcement, professional, ninja (just for fun) and elites. Players can also hire specialists and there's a few basic rules for different methods of insertion (Helio, HALO, Scuba).
Basic play involves D6's and a single pack of playing cards. There are two 'modes' of play, the standard wargame and the stealth mission. In the stealth mission, one side has an objective to complete - that determines success or failure. It may be take a hostage (rescue a prisoner) or sabotage a key point. The defender places guards which move according to a table, modified by the noise the attackers make. If the attackers are spotted, the alarm may be raised and the game reverts to a standard wargame. There are 36 possible stealth missions.
Combat is two step - hit and save. A game will take typically an hour or two, depending on how daring the players are.
There are rules for suppression and vehicles. There are also a few suggestions for 'five minutes from now', if people want to run 'advanced warfare'. The only thing I couldn't fit in was 'Metal Gear'. Ah well!
Hope that gives a taster.
Guy
That's certainly more than I've seen anywhere else - thanks! Are there different armour classes? As the combat system works with a save or is it more skill level? Also how does team building work?
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I'm familiar with Force on Force and Spectre, plus Skirmish Sangin. It would really be unfair of me to comment on which is better but I can make some comparisons.
Black Ops' stealth rules makes it different from the rest, although you can use it as a standard wargame. There are rules for reaction fire (like FoF) but its something you have to plan, not something you do automatically. Weapon ranges are important in Blk Ops - while most weapons can hit everything on the board, doing so accurately is another matter. A well placed sniper can pick off militia at long range with pretty much impunity.
The card activation system is essential to build uncertainty into the game. You don't know which group will be activated until the card is turned over, which means you have to plan your moves accordingly and take risks.
There are three unique mechanisms you won't have seen anywhere else (Stealth, CQC and Suppression). Card activation's been done before (and I acknowledge my debt to the Lardies and Studio Tomahawk) - using the picture cards for a standard deck of playing cards means there's no expensive card deck to buy. Rules wise its probably closest to Muskets and Tomahawks, but this is only the loosest of comparisons.
Use military tactics and you should be rewarded.
Guy
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Are there different armour classes?
You can equip your team with body armour, yes. Heavy body armour will slow you down, so not recommended for stealth missions (but its an option for some units). Some units are 'tough' which makes them harder to take down.
As the combat system works with a save or is it more skill level?
Hit (modified by skill) and Save (modified by cover). Charge your elites in the open and they'll get cut up like anyone else. Lay down suppressing fire, then cross makes for good tactics (or pop smoke).
Also how does team building work?
You have templates based loosely on historical TOE's. The basic 'unit' is the cell or section. You choose what support and specialists you wish to take.
Guy
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Preordered and am looking forward to it even more now.
Thank you.
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Interesting. Right up my 20mm alley 8)
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This certainly sounds interesting. Will there be any figures related to the release as there have been with previous Osprey Games' releases?
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Not from North Star sadly but I am letting manufacturers know what to expect.
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I might know a thing or two... what do you want to know? ;-)
Guy
Thanks for the new info, Guy. I'm guessing you'll have a solid article in WSS soon giving similar information but I - and it looks like several other posters - were wondering about the mechanics and gameplay. So thanks for the intriguing peek which should get more of us pre-ordering. And any game that you can play with 20-30 figures has to be appealing these days.
One more question, do you have any provision for stats for a not-resembling-any-copywritten "super agent" - picture Sean Connery knocking out guards and blowing up a heroin operation or Pierce Brosnan sneaking around a Russian dam project? Could be fun.
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Thanks for the new info, Guy. I'm guessing you'll have a solid article in WSS soon giving similar information but I - and it looks like several other posters - were wondering about the mechanics and gameplay. So thanks for the intriguing peek which should get more of us pre-ordering. And any game that you can play with 20-30 figures has to be appealing these days.
Surprisingly I don't have anything planned. It'd be bad form of me to do self promotion (my role as a writer is different from my role as editor) - we have a rule in WSS that any reviews have to be independent - there will be a review in the next WSS but I had to work hard to find someone who could do an imbiased review.
However once the rules are out, if anyone has any ideas for an article or three, I'd be interested.
One more question, do you have any provision for stats for a not-resembling-any-copywritten "super agent" - picture Sean Connery knocking out guards and blowing up a heroin operation or Pierce Brosnan sneaking around a Russian dam project? Could be fun.
Ohhhh yes. You can just take an Ace character, tool him up and see how he goes...
Guy
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Surprisingly I don't have anything planned. It'd be bad form of me to do self promotion (my role as a writer is different from my role as editor) - we have a rule in WSS that any reviews have to be independent - there will be a review in the next WSS but I had to work hard to find someone who could do an imbiased review.
However once the rules are out, if anyone has any ideas for an article or three, I'd be interested.
Ohhhh yes. You can just take an Ace character, tool him up and see how he goes...
Guy
Very cool news on the Ace agent - I've been pondering a Bondian-type stealth game for years - guaranteed to have lots of tension. Well done.
- Gorillacrab
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Shame about North Star not doing a line of figs. I can always use more hi-tech commando types. I suspect I'll make due somehow though. ;)
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I've Pm'd you Guy.
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Already preordered. Had been looking forward to this, but the extra info makes it sound even more tempting!
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Shame about North Star not doing a line of figs. I can always use more hi-tech commando types. I suspect I'll make due somehow though. ;)
Northstar can't do anything. I hope for Pig Iron to do something. So we have to do it by our own and buy only the book... ;)
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I have no doubt Pig Iron commando types would be most excellent.
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Will it work for 15mm?
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Will it work for 15mm?
I'd be surprised if it wouldn't. Should be as simple as halving ranges.
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How tough are vehicles in the game? I am suddenly interested., for reasons... ;)
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Black Ops sounds really good, looking forward to get it and run some games.
Like what I heared about the stealth rules, reminded me a little bit at the "Sabotage" rules.
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Guy,
Is it possible to run, say, SWAT/detectives vs. gangs/criminals with these rules?
Hostage rescue, takedowns, Christmas parties gone wrong, that sort of thing?
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Vehicles are covered and are pretty tough, yes I think it'll work well for what you have in mind. There's only generic stats in the book (due to lack of space) but I hope to expand that at some point.
15mm? No problem. As long as you can move models individually.
Cops and robbers? I had that in mind Ray. It'd be easy to write up some scenarios. I also have some post apocalypse ideas (survivors, with or without zombies) and some for UFO scenarios.
Guy
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The more I hear about this, the better it sounds. I've been waiting for a ruleset like this for ages.
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Yippee ki yay M***!! ;)
Sounds like another reason to pick these up. :D
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Basic play involves D6's and a single pack of playing cards. There are two 'modes' of play, the standard wargame and the stealth mission. In the stealth mission, one side has an objective to complete - that determines success or failure. It may be take a hostage (rescue a prisoner) or sabotage a key point. The defender places guards which move according to a table, modified by the noise the attackers make. If the attackers are spotted, the alarm may be raised and the game reverts to a standard wargame. There are 36 possible stealth missions.
This makes me think it should be fairly easy to play solo too. Looking forwards to getting my hands on this.
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I'm in on this like a ninja.
And I contacted Pig Iron Productions about our need for Splinter Cell Commando types.
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I have got that Raid on Entebbe-style Sci Fi scenario laying around for years. It seems BO may be the ruleset to play it with ;D
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My brother and I are really looking forward to this. He is tempted to see some special forces action, I'm more into the espionage thing of the matter. I also have one question if you don't mind Guy: Will it be on the usual OWG sixty-something pages? I came to love OWG edition (already having three of the books and planning more) especially because it's easy to learn and hard to master. Black Ops seems to be the case as well. Seems like I'll use my Infinity models again, or should I build a mercenary force of Hasslefree modern adventurers?
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My brother and I are really looking forward to this. He is tempted to see some special forces action, I'm more into the espionage thing of the matter. I also have one question if you don't mind Guy: Will it be on the usual OWG sixty-something pages? I came to love OWG edition (already having three of the books and planning more) especially because it's easy to learn and hard to master. Black Ops seems to be the case as well. Seems like I'll use my Infinity models again, or should I build a mercenary force of Hasslefree modern adventurers?
As my Bro just said, we are realy realy anxious to get this. I already preordered.
There are a huge amount of the scenarios and setting i can see this game which should be played: Shadowrun, Falkenberg's Legion, WH30K Alpha Legion Operatives, Star Wars Republic Commando, Mass Effect? Deus Ex, Rainbow Six, Assassin Creed future.... Jindra spokes about Infinity.
I always thought about secret military arm of the Knight Hospitallers who are taking action under secret UN mandate....
Anyway HF Minis operatives and Infinity models are obvious choice. Anvil Industry, Scale75, Pig Iron all of them has near future operatives and there are a lot of others.
Hearing about the game I think that this game is more avout Infinity setting, then actual Infinity game rules. Nomad breaching Imperial security. PanO raiders in SnD mission in Sygmaa space...But especial this one should be used for private corporate armies and espionage....
Realy I hope I will not be disappointed.
One question we discussed with bro before.
Playing the stealth mission, where there are scripted lookouts and raise the alarm - what the other player do before you triggers the alarm. Is he sort of "Dungeon Keeper - Dungeon Master"?
By the way, in the old Cadwallon game was mechanics, where you were increasing threat untill alarm was sounded and than you move from encounter to confrontation rules... Your description of stealth recommend me that.
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I'm thinking that Foundry Street Violence or Copplestone Future Wars would be spot on ranges for this set. I'm looking forward to picking this book up Guy!
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This wasn't even on my radar, but that short description makes it sound amazing. I'm definitely going to look out for it, particularly if there are solo play possibilities baked into the rules.
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So we tried our first game of Fistful of Kung Fu last Tues eve. We focused on core mechanics in the espionage/cyberpunk vein. No mystical combat or or OTT wuxia stuff. Still learning, we made some mistakes but it was quite fun and we will definitely be doing this again.
(https://stalker7.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/dscf1345.jpg)
https://stalker7.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/mission-keihin-infiltration/ (https://stalker7.wordpress.com/2015/09/05/mission-keihin-infiltration/)
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I am huge fan of Fistful of Kung Fu...
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We definitely enjoyed it. It's flavored toward cinematic, Pulp-style wuxia games. Not that that's bad mind you, and we'll certainly be playing it again. But Black Ops seems tailored to precisely the kind of espionage, spec-ops skirmish I'm hankering for.
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I am a little bit afraid of random activation /what I understand from what has been written now/. How can it be tactic game when you cant choose what do you want to activate next?
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Random activation is a bit of a mental hurdle, but cool actually once you adjust your thinking. My experience is games tend to be slower, with players camping/ more cautious. No one wants to stick their neck out on the risk of a lousy activation draw. That said, you can force movement by adding specific objectives and a turn limit. That ratchets things up a bit.
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The only thing I couldn't fit in was 'Metal Gear'. Ah well!
Guy
:'( Was there a specific problem, or just mg being so...idiosyncratic?
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I am a little bit afraid of random activation /what I understand from what has been written now/. How can it be tactic game when you cant choose what do you want to activate next?
I think we should wait until we have seen the rules. I am not a huge fan of ospreys politic of giving copies to few people and fire this pool of rumours. First the book was annouced for September, now it is October. Sad for the normal customers. Maybe Osprey can re-think this politic.
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I think we should wait until we have seen the rules. I am not a huge fan of ospreys politic of giving copies to few people and fire this pool of rumours. First the book was annouced for September, now it is October. Sad for the normal customers. Maybe Osprey can re-think this politic.
Isnt that what reviewing is about? It's not a Kickstarter where we have all paid but some are getting the project before others. Looking forward to it.
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I don't think the random activation will be too much of an issue if its closely linked to how the opponent is playing; ie noisy approach = big chance of being spotted, stealthy approach = less chance. Its just a different type of game. I'm looking forward to it coming out.
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And if you don't like it, changing the activation system should be easy, right?
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I think we should wait until we have seen the rules. I am not a huge fan of ospreys politic of giving copies to few people and fire this pool of rumours. First the book was annouced for September, now it is October. Sad for the normal customers. Maybe Osprey can re-think this politic.
I'm pretty certain that Dalcor was commenting on Fistful of Kung Fu. But I could be wrong.
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Nope, AFOK does not have random activation. Black Ops has, as per review in WSS has based upon card-draw system.
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Hope they will have some copies with them at Spiel...
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The stealth missions were always my favorite ones in Necromunda, so I'm really stoked to get these rules as soon as possible. The upshot of the long wait time is the chance to get a few more troops painted up and add some more scatter terrain to the tabletop before the rules get here. Still need more vehicles, planter boxes, benches, and other doo-dads for the urban table.
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I have got message from Book depository that rules are on its way :-)
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At Spiel Osprey told me it would be a November release. And they didn't had them for sale of course.
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At Spiel Osprey told me it would be a November release. And they didn't had them for sale of course.
Sad to hear :(
Did they tell you why?
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I have got message from Book depository that rules are on its way :-)
Keep us up to date!
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I've just ordered my set from Northstar. They've got a 20% discount on them at the moment. ;)
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Amazon is still reporting delivery between Oct. 23 and 29 for the pre-order. Don't know how much that means, though.
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Yes, I just checked my Amazon preorder and it's still listed for 20 Oct release. Along with Osprey's Bug Hunt.
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I ordered it from Book Depository yesterday & they've said it is on its way. Granted, that's from UK to Australia, so they could cheat a little & I'd never know.
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At Spiel Osprey told me it would be a November release. And they didn't had them for sale of course.
I think that was me you spoke to, and I'm afraid that was entirely my error - it IS an October release, and will be out imminently. Put my mistake down to Spiel Fatigue!
Sorry!
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No sweat! I can imagine how hard an event like Spiel can be. And an October release sounds better 8)
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My "Black Ops" book arrived today from the BookDepository. Initial quick scan of the book looks very promising, I'll have to get my SAS painted asap.
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My "Black Ops" book arrived today from the BookDepository. Initial quick scan of the book looks very promising, I'll have to get my SAS painted asap.
Lucky guy :)
Hope I get my copy soon as well.
Have you red the rules yet?
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I confess I'm more than interested in informations about the game. Feel free to share what you can :D
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My initial reaction is that it will be a lot of fun to play, which is a definite winner for me. I've played a lot of systems where the attempt to recreate or simulate can sometimes detract from the fun factor. The stealth rules are not unlike ones we developed in house for our ACW campaign so I've no issue with them taking control away from players. If you go in loud you'll get rumbled early and full control reverts to the defender. I can't wait to get a game in.
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I readed that the game has some card driven activation features, is the game solo and coop vs "the game" compatible ?
thanks !
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Got my copy just now....64 pages, nice layout with art and colour pictures of games in play. Cannot say anything about the rules, but it does say its works fine with Solo too... I know more when I`m reading them...
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Got my copy just now....64 pages, nice layout with art and colour pictures of games in play. Cannot say anything about the rules, but it does say its works fine with Solo too... I know more when I`m reading them...
Read faster then ;)
Sadly, it seems that I have to wait one more week, thanks Amazon >:(
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Bought my copy on Amazon.ca this morning.
Now we play the waiting game...
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Just ordered mine, should be here on Thursday
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I also ordered it, finally. I wanted to fill a gap in my rulesets for modern special forces actions, but also to see if it could fit my needs of rules mechanics for Shadowrun. I already own Shadorwun RPG book (3rd edition), and I wanted to "paste" some miniature gaming rules on it...Maybe Black ops will do it 8)
My book has been shipped this morning from Book depository.
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My pre-order from Amazon is 'Out for Delivery'. Now if the darned UPS driver would go a bit quicker....
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Damn... I should check in to the Lead Adventure Forum more often...!
Just recovering from Flu. I will answer Qs on here or you can get me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/OspreyBlackOps
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Mine through Amazon arrived today.
:)
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How high tech does this game go? Somebody mentioned wanting to try and use it for shadowrun, I'm curious if things like mini-drones are included.
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A question was asked on how random card activation makes the game more tactical. It does because you have to allow for the random sequence and plan accordingly. Can you sneak across the square or will that guard turn and see you? IGO UGO made the game too predictable. You can of course play it as an IGO UGO game and abandon the cards, but I suspect you'll come to the same conclusions I did...
How High tech? 5 minutes from now. Drones weren't included as they aren't exactly stealth weapons! Rules could be made up for them though...
Guy
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Just ordered my copy today. Looking forwards to getting hold of it.
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I'd agree that the random card activation removes the predictability of the turn sequence making planning your moves more important. The two activations a turn helps with this too.
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Tech Level: Tom Clancy's Ghost Warrior Future Soldier, Rainbox Six or Phantoms, or Jerry Pournelles Falkenberg Saga.
No tech level for Mass Effect, Infinity, Shadowrun, 40k. But rules could be easily modified, or you can move the actualy setting and make it futuristic and rewrite the actual keywords. Like Heavy Armor will be Power Armor, Light Armor will be Light Suit etc. Actualy the game is not sci-fi.
I dont realy like random activation overall. Where is the "tactic" aspect if it is ruined by randomness? As GuyB pointed out - in every movie, the sentry ALWAYS look by sheer luck your way when least needed. And every battle plan does not outlive contact with the enemy... But thats personal taste of everyone - for me - thats weird for tactics game. I played Skirmish Sangin today and enjoyed its activation sequence very much. I dont think the game was predictable. Anyway its very hard to tell its bad or good if i dont play a game myself yet.
Also I realy dont like the thing that I have to carry deck of cards (or any other mandatory preps, like that huge amount of tokens for Skirmish Sangin.
The randomness level is very limited in this game thanks to the system - and that does not look that bad.
Each type of soldier is assigned to a card (Leader Ace, Heavy King etc) and your side is using all red or black color cards of the type (2 Aces, 2 kings). If figure is drawn, all your models assigned to the type of card has one activation. So it means you have two activation per game round (activation deck is fully drawn). With extra activation for leader thanks to Joker - leader could order soldier within 6inh instead.
Or you can keep your soldiers in reserve when they activate on trigger (usualy model entering los to shoot on, or SAS team to simultaneously enter the building).
So thats not that bad I was originaly afraid of, and I realy want it to test it.
As I realy want to play Infinity and Mass Effect in these rules, I have to look how to modify... After some games to get through the overall design options not to disballance it.
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I can see it working for Scifi pretty well. I'd be interested to see what you come up with. Personal shields a la Mass Effect sound cool.
I'm a big fan of Cyberpunk, so will probably work some tweaks in for near future games. I'm also considering an article on 'Enemy Unknown' UFO style games and have some ideas for post apocalypse/zombie type games.
Guy
https://www.facebook.com/OspreyBlackOps
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Well, I dont thing that there is huge need for any tweaking for sci-fi games - only renaming some items, armors and weapons - like Dragon Rampant, Samurai Rampant, Dark Age Rampant... just renaming the troop types and skill types you have a whole new game. So same it should be with renaming some of the basic data and you are from near future in Clone Wars.
But the Mass Effect / Star Wars "magic like" effects should be interested as add-on. But first I have to study the rules...
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How High tech? 5 minutes from now. Drones weren't included as they aren't exactly stealth weapons! Rules could be made up for them though...
I was thinking of micro-drones. You know tiny flying cameras for scouting a area, or grenades that roll themselves around corners. Stuff we can actually make today but aren't in use as far as we know. (but is hyped in discovery docu's and the like)
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Micro drones are already in use, I've seen photos in "RAID" french military magazine, talking about french special forces gear, already using little wheeled drones (a bit like RC buggies) or some kind of "flying saucer" with propellers, althought these are used for coms and intel, not to carry weapons. ;)
Concerning scifi settings for Black ops, personnaly I bought the 3rd edition Shadowrun RPG book, to use it as a source book to "house rule" anything I would need for this particular setup.
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Well that was quick - my rules just arrived in Australia from book depository! First glance is a really well presented set of rules with nice photos. The possibilities of the rules from a quick flick are really exciting too!
Hey GuyB, where is the awesome ship terrain from, and have you got any more photos? So cool
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Got my rulebook (then ordered another for my buddy and the kindle edition too!)
I really like them! I'll probably add some more near-future sci-fi equipment and capabilities but i'm working on a Quick Reference Sheet at the moment.
Also, two quick rule questions:
Blinds, can I activate them or do the miniatures represented by the blinds just exist in that space until revealed? How many figures can be represented by one blind?
The Special Forces entry mentions air support, what does that refer to? Also, for HELO/HALO insertion can I only insert in the middle? Any thoughts on Helicopters/VTOLs as controllable vehicles?
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Hi GuyB...Well done of a lovely rule set and the book looks lovely, sweet art inside. I`m on my second read though and must say the best modern rules i have read for my own tastes. They work great for something like "Ghost recon wildlands" and "The division" too..rules for civs will work great.
Quick question for today....Medic Rule ( If used ) lay "dead" figure face up, then at end of each turn you check to see who`s facing up, and then you just flip them face down to let people know they are badly wounded. Then when somebody wishes to check there wounds its a 5+/3+ and success means roll of Wound table ?
I think I got that right... If so, if you fail your Medic test, can you try again and anytime, or maybe remove figure to say you cannot try again he`s too far gone..?
Anyway a great ruleset, the best I have read, I look forward to using them, and with Battle systems next year, you rules will be a key player with them. I know Reviews will give you a thumbs up.. So all I need know is some simple drone rules, for large off today ones, to mini ones my Ghost ca use..
Thanks B
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Hi GuyB...Well done of a lovely rule set and the book looks lovely, sweet art inside. I`m on my second read though and must say the best modern rules i have read for my own tastes. They work great for something like "Ghost recon wildlands" and "The division" too..rules for civs will work great.
Glad you like them.
Quick question for today....Medic Rule ( If used ) lay "dead" figure face up, then at end of each turn you check to see who`s facing up, and then you just flip them face down to let people know they are badly wounded. Then when somebody wishes to check there wounds its a 5+/3+ and success means roll of Wound table ?
I'm happy for people to keep trying to stabilise a fallen comrade. They are after all 'wasting' activations to try...
I think I got that right... If so, if you fail your Medic test, can you try again and anytime, or maybe remove figure to say you cannot try again he`s too far gone..?
They can keep trying.
Anyway a great ruleset, the best I have read, I look forward to using them, and with Battle systems next year, you rules will be a key player with them. I know Reviews will give you a thumbs up.. So all I need know is some simple drone rules, for large off today ones, to mini ones my Ghost ca use...
Well you could say the drones are there already. Players have after all a 'godlike' perspective on the board.
I'll consider rules for Helios and drones but they will be noisy!
Guy
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Hi B..hope your feeling better after your flu......Fingers crossed listening to people buying your rules and enjoying them will be the best medicine. Speaking of small drones, I guess they help check out blinds and spot hidden for your team... time to dig the rules out again... Be well
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I enjoyed reading them tremendously and am looking forward to my first game. This might well be at Crisis, since my calendar is lamentably crowded until then.
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How high tech does this game go?
Mildly, with a small array of bits and bobs, mainly stealth related.
Somebody mentioned wanting to try and use it for shadowrun, I'm curious if things like mini-drones are included.
No specific dtone rules on my first glance through, but brief rules for Air Strike and SIGINT could proxy what you want from drones.
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Read half of it now and love it. Simple, to the point and effective. Really nice. I will be using it for my near future games, Cyberpunk games and sci-fi games. IMO tech is all relative, so that's not a big issue for me. A nowadays AK-47 can be a Blaster Rifle in a Starwars setting.
I'll be playing my first game next week, looking forwards to it! 8)
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Well you could say the drones are there already. Players have after all a 'godlike' perspective on the board.
I'll consider rules for Helios and drones but they will be noisy!
That is a very elegant answer and solution. :D
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If you're interested in the new Osprey Black Ops book, i've put together an Excel roster sheet (many of the fields auto-populate if you use the drop down menus)
Here's a link to the excel roster: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fxm4btDIv1SzFBaHdqS3g3RkE/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fxm4btDIv1SzFBaHdqS3g3RkE/view?usp=sharing)
As an example, using my HADES figures, i've put together a 50 point Special Forces team. This is mostly for learning with my buddy and then once I get the game down I'll be introducing more sci-fi/near future elements.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/12028781_10153586306620199_8416949934524284883_o.jpg)
I plan on adding the near future stuff like heavy armor, exoskeleton, thermal imaging, etc. but I wanted to start easy:
Here is a link to a completed roster: (http://i.imgur.com/7isEFOn.jpg)
I'm also working on large power armor suits, figuring out the best way to allow VTOLs (since I have a lot of them smile emoticon ) and squad support drones.
I've also completed a Quick Reference Sheet... but I wanted to get the OK from the author and osprey first before posting it up.
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Harold, Phil at Osprey loved it.
Would you mind if they used it on their site?
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Started to read the book and I really like it.
I like the stealth mechanics and the unpredictability of the activation system.
Just to be sure though, the observation starts at a 6+ for anyone and gets modified according to what's going on?
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Hi Guy,
Yes of course! Glad they liked it!
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Just to be sure though, the observation starts at a 6+ for anyone and gets modified according to what's going on?
Think of it as a 'save' to avoid being spotted. So you have minuses for distance, camouflage, cover etc and pluses for noise.
Guy
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Here is the QRS
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fxm4btDIv1Y3RaVHpHVnFWdms/view?usp=docslist_api
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Any one bought the epub version and tried to read it with Adobe Digital Editions ? I had several small problems with the Frostgrave epub and would like to be sure there aren't any with Black Ops before buying :o
Thanks by advance.
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Review in Czech Language, English translation will be available soon
http://wargamingasp.blogspot.cz/2015/10/black-ops-review.html
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Just a quick question.
On the "vehicle hit location" the "1" for the d6 roll is missing.
So, is the location the same as if you would roll a "2"?
And, the "professional ace" has a save of "5", but he should have a "4" because of the body-armour, right?
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I think body armor is an additional modifier beyond the stat line, that's how we played it anyway.
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I think body armor is an additional modifier beyond the stat line, that's how we played it anyway.
Not sure about that, cause the other "professionals" all have a save of "4", using body armour as well.
Just not the "ace".
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Hey guys, just ordered my book tonight! From the sounds of it it will fit nicely into what I wanted it for. I recently re-read Dune and I've always wanted there to be some sort of wargame rules, but it is mainly narrative with elite troopers like the Fremen and Sardaukar murdering each other in raids. But Dune is that strange sci-fi where you do have some tech, but its not ridiculously hi-tech, with more focus on troopers than computers/lasers etc. I think these rules could be well adapted to resemble the conflicts on Arrakis!
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Yes I think that Black Ops should be very well use for Arrakiss skirmishes...
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And, the "professional ace" has a save of "5", but he should have a "4" because of the body-armour, right?
Finished reading the book and it looks like a few statlines are not quite right, at least to me.
The mercenaries have the same "save" problem like the "professionals.
The ninja ace, having "body armour" and "though" should have a save of "3", not "4", right?
How is the point-balacing in general?
The "conscript ace" and the "milita ace" have the same cost, though the conscript is slightly better stats-wise.
It looks to me, that cost-wise the best list to choose from is the "agency".
Their "ace" costs 9.5 points.
If I would make him up myself using the "point costs" system in the book he would cost me 11 points.
Or am I getting something wrong ???
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Oh dear lord, misprints!!! Horror! I'm really sorry about this! :(
And, the "professional ace" has a save of "5", but he should have a "4" because of the body-armour, right?
Yes, the Professional (page 54) and Mercenary 'Ace' (page 56) should have a save of 4+... The save does include the modifier for equipment or abilities listed. So the Ninja Ace for example is correct at 3+ as he has armour and is tough.
The "conscript ace" and the "militia ace" have the same cost, though the conscript is slightly better stats-wise.
Correct. The Conscript Ace should be 9 points (page 53) and the Militia Ace 8 1/2 points (page 51) with the drop in DED...
It looks to me, that cost-wise the best list to choose from is the "agency".
He should be Elite (8 points), Tough and Leader (+1 Point each), Ace (+2 Points) and Basic Weapon (-1/2 point) so 11.5 points. (Page 59).
Guy
PS: Page numbers put in for Harold!
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Just a quick question.
On the "vehicle hit location" the "1" for the d6 roll is missing.
So, is the location the same as if you would roll a "2"?
The vehicle hit table (Page 47) in the book has been edited from the original (I'm guessing to fit it all in). The originals were:
Car Hit location
1 Tyres
2 Engine
3 Driver
4 Passenger
5 Turret/gunner
6 VIP passenger
Truck Hit Location
1 Tyres
2 Engine
3 Front Compartment (Driver/Passenger)
4 Cargo
5 Cargo
6 Cargo
Armoured Personnel Carrier
1 Tyres/Tracks
2 Engine
3 Front Compartment (Driver/Gunner)
4 Weapon Turret
5 Troops
6 Troops
Tank
1 Tracks
2 Engine
3 Engine
4 Crew Compartment (Driver/Gunner/Commander)
5 Crew Compartment (Driver/Gunner/Commander)
6 Weapon Turret
Please keep your feedback coming!
Guy
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Thank you very much for the clarifications!
(And a side note, if you could include page numbers, that would be very helpful too :) )
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I bought it and read most of the book. Sweet little game! I like the activation system, the simple rules, the many options, the stealth thingies and the flexibility of the lists. I can't wait to try it.
Too bad there aren't aliens but I was prepared to it. :D o_o
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First game over the weekend, enjoyed it a lot. You already resolved the Ace save & body armor questions I had, but I've got two more:
1) Does Two-Handed actually apply any modifiers in QCQ or just count as a 'long weapon' for combat resolution?
2) Model A is in Reserve. Model B activates, choosing to Cautious Advance + Fire at Model A, but this puts him within line of sight of Model A. If Model A wants to fire at B as well, what order is the shooting resolved in?
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First game over the weekend, enjoyed it a lot. You already resolved the Ace save & body armor questions I had, but I've got two more:
1) Does Two-Handed actually apply any modifiers in QCQ or just count as a 'long weapon' for combat resolution?
2) Model A is in Reserve. Model B activates, choosing to Cautious Advance + Fire at Model A, but this puts him within line of sight of Model A. If Model A wants to fire at B as well, what order is the shooting resolved in?
We played it as the reserve figure gets to fire first since it was the act of moving into LOS that triggered it.
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Thanks Guy :)
So, the statline of the "agency ace" should be:
ACC 3, CQC 3, DED 4, Save 4
Right?
With DED 3 he would cost 12 points ;)
Also, in general, if you have 2 times the same soldier (same stats/equipment), they should cost the same, don't matter from which faction they are, right?
I can build 2 times the accurate same sniper, using the "professionals" he would cost me 10.5 points, but using the "agency" list his costs are just 7.5 points :?
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1) Does Two-Handed actually apply any modifiers in QCQ or just count as a 'long weapon' for combat resolution?
Was wondering the same.
You just get the bonus using swords, otherwise it just means you can't use 2 weapons when using a 2-handed one, and that they are longer than single handed ones, I guess (though a sword, been used one handed should still be the same size like a baseball-bat ;) )
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Sorry, double post!
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Thanks Guy Smiley
So, the statline of the "agency ace" should be:
ACC 3, CQC 3, DED 4, Save 4
Right?
With DED 3 he would cost 12 points Wink
Good point. Let's keep him at DED 3 and 12 points. I can't see Bourne or Bond running away... they are pretty much fanatics.
Also, in general, if you have 2 times the same soldier (same stats/equipment), they should cost the same, don't matter from which faction they are, right?
I can build 2 times the accurate same sniper, using the "professionals" he would cost me 10.5 points, but using the "agency" list his costs are just 7.5 points Confused
They should cost almost the same.
Veteran 6 points. Acc 3 1 point. Body Armour and Sniper rifle 2 points. = 9 points. Make DED 3 = +1/2 point for the Agent.
So the Agent heavy should be 9 1/2 points... and the Professional should be able to exchange his GPMG for a Sniper for 'free'.
1) Does Two-Handed actually apply any modifiers in QCQ or just count as a 'long weapon' for combat resolution?
No mods to CQC but there will be to saves (page 21).
2) Model A is in Reserve. Model B activates, choosing to Cautious Advance + Fire at Model A, but this puts him within line of sight of Model A. If Model A wants to fire at B as well, what order is the shooting resolved in?
Harold is right. Reserve model reacts as the model is seen (page 10) and shoots first.
Guy
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Thanks for the page numbers and clarifications Guy!
I've updated my roster here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2fxm4btDIv1SzFBaHdqS3g3RkE/view?usp=sharing
(i'll always update that link with the most recent Excel roster sheet)
This excel sheet has drop down menu and auto fill for all the soldier choices, along with weapon reference. It will also add up points and stuff for you, you simply have to fill in any upgrades and point costs.
If you find any errors or have any feedback please let me know!
Also, I ran a fun introductory game of Black Ops with my buddy... Each of us has an identical force of 3 SF soldiers (Ace, heavy and Trooper).
Lots of fun, worked great for 15mm, quick and made sense. We'll be trying out more of the rules, including stealth missions and more in the coming weeks.
We're looking forward to using some of the light RPG elements and 3rd party (like Police and civilians) rules too.
One question we did have, since we had the SF troopers and they are tough and have body armor would their save be 3+ normally since Tough and Body armor are already factored in? We thought it wasn't factored in so they basically always saved on a 2+ (and were often in cover too).
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One question we did have, since we had the SF troopers and they are tough and have body armor would their save be 3+ normally since Tough and Body armor are already factored in? We thought it wasn't factored in so they basically always saved on a 2+ (and were often in cover too).
3+ it should be ;)
Quote
1) Does Two-Handed actually apply any modifiers in QCQ or just count as a 'long weapon' for combat resolution?
No mods to CQC but there will be to saves (page 21).
How about a fixed bayonett?
It's 2-handed as well, but doesn't grant a save-bonus.
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How about a fixed bayonett?
It's 2-handed as well, but doesn't grant a save-bonus.
Remember it counts as a 'blade' (giving armour penetration) and has a greater length. No, it's not as good as a Katana!
Guy
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Any thoughts on how to handle motorcycles?
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I bought it and read most of the book. Sweet little game! I like the activation system, the simple rules, the many options, the stealth thingies and the flexibility of the lists. I can't wait to try it.
Too bad there aren't aliens but I was prepared to it. :D o_o
I sure they can be worked one way or another. I'm likely to be running Black Ops at a conference (Horizont in Denmark) in a week or two with many 15mm aliens sculpted by a certain sculptor ;)
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I just received the book, I'll read it tonight !
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I got questions about some of the "exotic" skills (specialities, gear).
Is there any range for Allure and Intimidation or is it LOS ?
Does Stealth Camouflage confer some sort of invisibility/invulnerability or can you reveal it to shoot at the model before it becomes hidden again? Not sure that makes any sense...
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Blinds - if a mission says use up to 6 Blinds and I only have 3 groups of guys, can I put 3 blank Blinds down to confuse my opponent?
If I deploy forces as Blinds, can they cautious move around before revealing? And if so, what card do they activate on?
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I just finished to read the rules, and even if I 'm not sure I finally will use it to fit my 1st needs (playing shadowrun style missions), I discovered a great modern combat skirmish ruleset :o
In fact, even if you remove the "tactical espionnage" features (wich are great by the way), it remains a very nice generic modern ruleset. I think I will use it instead of my trusty OPEX french ruleset for most of my needs !
I really hope the author will develop this aspect of this game, with supplements for bigger symetric games, for instance, jungle fight and stuff like that.
What do you think ? Am I alone to see a great "core" ruleset for modern historical gaming with black ops ?
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I noticed that right off the bat. Really need to motivate myself and paint my Empress moderns now.
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We played our first game yesterday: Espionage at the Compound. We had a blast... A tense stealth gane where the elites were in a tight spit when a simple guard spotted one of them and the infiltration *almost* went south. The guard spotted the intruders and in the next round all three patrolling guards spotted them. There were 6 noise counters in play, but unfortunately my 2 aces were already played. So I had 1 shot on the Joker and I had to roll a 5+ (6 noise, but the Ace was in a building so the noise was halved). I rolled a 2... And then all of my guards were killed. The elites quickly completed their mission and ran off. Drats...
Excellent rules and a lot of fun to play. We only had some doubts with sounding the alarm. Even with 6 noise counters I had to roll a 5+ because the Ace was in a building. I thought that was a bit harsh when 3 guards were screaming for alarm.
I am thinking about adding alarm systems (think farcry 3 & 4),so you can get a garanteed alarm with some effort.
@GuyB: any thoughts on the way the alarm works now?
(and although I "lost" I loved the game. Felt really cinematic and tense, juat what I was looking for :) )
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I ran my first two games of Black Ops last week- I've put a review and pictures on my blog:
https://spprojectblog.wordpress.com/2015/11/02/black-ops-rules-review-and-playtest/
I have a few questions if I may though:
Is changing a weapon a major or minor action? Two handed in the list of weapon attributes seems to be undefined...? What is the practical difference between silent and suppressed weapons? Does a falling body generate noise- if so how much? Is there a QRS anywhere?
Cheers,
Pete.
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Oh dear lord, misprints!!! Horror! I'm really sorry about this! :(
Yes, the Professional (page 54) and Mercenary 'Ace' (page 56) should have a save of 4+... The save does include the modifier for equipment or abilities listed. So the Ninja Ace for example is correct at 3+ as he has armour and is tough.
Correct. The Conscript Ace should be 9 points (page 53) and the Militia Ace 8 1/2 points (page 51) with the drop in DED...
He should be Elite (8 points), Tough and Leader (+1 Point each), Ace (+2 Points) and Basic Weapon (-1/2 point) so 11.5 points. (Page 59).
Guy
PS: Page numbers put in for Harold!
Also I have issues on any Ace, like Professional Ace
Veteran (6) + Body Armor (+1) + Ace (+2) + Leader (+1) = 10. RAW9. Seems that Aces have leader for free?
And I have one question regarding aerial deployment - I dont see the reason why to deploy such models in the center of the table (RAW) Is it based upon betatest issues? For example I am going to compound and I have found where are the defenders. And I can not choose where I deploy which seems weird. Even though my guys are on board DAP. Same HALO/HAHO are quite precise and regarding the Helicopter Insertion Extraction - well you point the helicopter on the spot where to land.
The special operations in the past (be it Green Devils in Belgium/Netherlands, Skorzeny SS special forces freeing Duce, famous "Black Hawk Down", or recently DEVGRU success shows that aerial extraction has its meaning and definetely it can be provided with maximum precision. So I am quite surprised that player is paying that much points and can not choose the point... Is it due to lite-rules, or due to issues in betatesting? as it to much advantage... Actualy for 6 points you have huge against classical deployment to board edge.
I am a little bit disappointed by the description of Hackers and Specialist. They roll 3+ when roll is needed... When Roll is needed is up to player, right? I understand that it should be something like electronic lock is closed. Then Roll is needed... Oukydouky. But If I dont have hacker, should I open the door? Or I am stuck behind them? I am not sure if I miss something in rules, or this is just rules-liteness in extreme? ;-)
And does hacker or demolition master help in Sabotage or Espionage missions? I see whole potential not entirely used.
I dont want second Infinity rules, where skills and hacking and biohacking ruined the game, but I want to know the meaning of the specialist.
I mean no disrespect I like the rules very much and I am interested about choices and thinking behind the rules. Thank you
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Well, here is downloadable Army list (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_A_uc_n_u7MjNRRUxaY0FqMWs/view?usp=sharing) for pen and paper handfill - no excell autofill.
We are going to test the game tomorrow with my brother, and as we have currently only 40k and some Infinity models, we will use Infinity for the first several games. Here is Mission data-sheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_A_uc_n_u7a2Z4dDlUSDNSelk/view?usp=sharing) for operation Ettins Fall.
And finnaly my Ice Devil List (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_A_uc_n_u7eXY1S3B6Mk41RFk/view?usp=sharing). I will uplaod my bro´s list tomorrow with some photos I hope.
Excel version of the Sheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_A_uc_n_u7eXB4ZXJZaU1ReTg/view?usp=sharing)
And my post number 100 here
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Hello,
yesterday night we played our first Black Ops game. We found it quite interesting and we will play it again.
The scenario chosen was a stealth mission, assassination over the Terminal map. The target started from the landed helicopter and and to travel across the table to exit on opposite corner.
You may see few pictures here:
https://stefanov.no-ip.org/wiki/pages/R2W6m1/Black_Ops.html
We had quite some fun, even if we were a bit bogged down with the guards rule. In this case guards, as stated in the scenario description, had to move together with the target of the operation.
We did not know how to use the Guards table and the Noise and alarms in this case. We had to place everything on table and play using the standard encounter rules.
Also the blinds rule does not seem to apply in this case, since blinds don't move and our guards had to move in fact.
Maybe somebody having already played, or the author maybe, may help ? In any case thumbs up for these new rules!!!
cheers Stefano
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Dalcor, I would say that the specialist hacker and demolition can be used in the missions you discribed.
Just blow things up or hack and lock pick doors to your hearts content. Any one can open unlocked doors. Also the B&E speciality is for breaking and entering, and can can be used for opening locked doors or hot wiring vehicles.
Also just have fun, you don't like starting off in the center of the table you don't have too. You want to blast a hole in the wall with out bring in the B&E, go ahead. You think doors can only be opened by using a key card held by the head guard? That works just fine too.
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Also just have fun...
Yeah, thats obvious I can house-rule the game and play it as I want. But for example my oponent does not want, perhaps. Than I am asking why it is this way RAW, just not to spoil the game.
And another question, could be aerial deplyment be delayed? So the DAP with CCT AND PJs came lets say in Turn2?
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I think Black Ops isn't really a game made for playing it RAW (like Frostrgrave). It's not like Warmachine or Malifaux where it's about RAW gameplay. I think Black Ops is meant to be played like it's your game...so you decide what to use and how to use things like B&E or Hacking. For me, it's part of the charm. During my game me and my mate decided it was dark, the door was locked (and could either be hacked or picked) during the game. Worked well and the result was an excellent game where the door was a real road block and almost became the elite's downfall.
But GuyB can probably step in and explain the rules (and their intentions) better :)
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Frostgrave is truly amazing game, with awfull Editorial work (proofreading, rule-testing). I am quite happy with lite rules and re-do yourself rules. Question - is that an intent from the Osprey to not care if the rules are not consistent, two fold or partialy missing? Anyway again as a rolepayer first and foremost I have no issues with houseruling and narrative approach.
The reason why I am asking about RAW is to understand the decisions taken and because that local wargamers are foremost competitive rulelawyers
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Hacking could be used for several scenarios :
wire a room in a stealth mission;
use a optical fiber in a room to reveal people in it;
etc...
That's how I plan to use it, at least ;)
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And:
*Hack some security robots to take control of them.
*Disable the alarms
*Disable enemy camouflage
Many options!
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*Disable enemy camouflage
Good idea.
I understand Dalcor's point of view. Tho I only play just for the fun of it and don't care about tournaments, minmaxing, super combos, etc or even winning, I used to like when things were balanced or clear.
But I decided I wouldn't care at all for Black Ops. Not to mention that in the end dice throws aren't balanced.
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What's RAW stand for?
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Rules As Written
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I have played a first game with Dalcor tonight. It was really very nice game. I like it.
I have some list building questions:
I would like to play secret agency list based on disguised agents. My question is, how is it with squad upgrades? Will I pay 4 points for each of my agents or for 3-4 (seriously?!) agents. You know, I'm not building a squad, more like cell of independent operatives coordinated from the outside (like the beginning of Mission Impossible 1 - massacre included probably).
Thanks. It's quite major difference to pay 4 or 16 points for four agents.
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Squads upgrades are for the whole squad tho the number of minis may vary. Half the costs for characters (queens, kings and aces I believe).
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Right. So if I have 5 agents, I pay 4 points and all of them are disguised. Then I pay 2 extra for an ace and 2 extra for king. What about specialists? Do they have access to the upgrades?
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If it makes sense for your team, I'd say yes.
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Yesterday we were just very much surprised that Observation roll should be known as camouflage roll as model observed is rolling the dices, not the one who observes... thats unusual ;-)
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Is there an errata sheet yet?
Just trying to plan my first game or two. How many points make a good game? how many is too many?
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Just bought the rules from FLGS, can't wait to give it a read. Hopefully I can use them for some Pulp action in BoB setting :)
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Sorry, I'm just back from a weekend's holiday and busy week at work! I'm also busy preparing for a Black Ops demo at Crisis 2015, so i may get back and answer more completely on Monday or Tuesday next week.
We only had so much space in the book so some areas were inevitably quickly covered. I thought all the 'specials' were best included if lightly covered, I'm happy to give clarification where required. There will be an errata sheet in the next few weeks or so - I'm actually seeing what you guys say before I complete it! ;)
Thanks,
Guy
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Hello, same as Frostgrave I went through pages of this thread looking for questions and answers and also questions without answers, including the Errata. Please consider them as hight unofficial unless Guy says otherwise. Only Guy´s answers are taken into consideration in this list as he is the ONE behind the rules . I have included some of my own questions which were not in this forum before. If I miss some of yours from here, please let me know I will update the list.
So here is link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2_A_uc_n_u7M3pmMUJfYXpTeW8/view?usp=sharing
And here are unanswered questions from Page 6 to page 10.
Q:Two handed in the list of weapon attributes seems to be undefined...? (page 21: Melee Weapons, Notes on Bayonet for example, not explained on the Page 20 Table Weapon Special Ability)
Q: Model A is in Reserve. Model B activates, choosing to Cautious Advance + Fire at Model A, but this puts him within line of sight of Model A. If Model A wants to fire at B as well, what order is the shooting resolved in?
Q: Is there any range for Allure and Intimidation or is it LOS ?
Q: Does Stealth Camouflage confer some sort of invisibility/invulnerability or can you reveal it to shoot at the model before it becomes hidden again? Not sure that makes any sense...
Q: If a mission says use up to 6 Blinds and I only have 3 groups of guys, can I put 3 blank Blinds down to confuse my opponent?
Q: If I deploy forces as Blinds, can they cautious move around before revealing? And if so, what card do they activate on?
Q:Is changing a weapon a major or minor action?
Q:What is the practical difference between silent and suppressed weapons?
Q:Does a falling body generate noise- if so how much?
Q:Does point cost of Militia Ace should be 8 ½ (Veteran 6, Ace 2, Leader 1, +1DED - ½ )
Q:Could be aerial deplyment be delayed? So the HALO troopers came in Turn2?
Q: how is it with squad upgrades? Will I pay 4 points for each of my agents or for 3-4 agents. How many points will cost same squad upgrade if I field only two or one Jack agents
Q: Specialist seems only as non-military staff as they have no armor upgrade possibility, right?
Q: There are no point-buy rules for kings – when soldier becames heavy, as some heavy weapons are available to soldiers to.
Q: Can I activate Blinds or do the miniatures represented by the blinds just exist in that space until revealed? How many figures can be represented by one blind?
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That's an excellent list Dalcor. I will get back to you on it! :)
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Q:Does point cost of Militia Ace should be 8 ½ (Veteran 6, Ace 2, Leader 1, +1DED - ½ )
He is :)
That question was asked by me a little earlier in this thread ;)
Honestly, a lot of the stats/costs are not right
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Sorry I miss it
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During yesterday game we have had some issues with "Intruder Alert" I have seen some excellent ideas for narrative approach here with specialists, so consider this as an house rules
Squad Upgrade
Transmitter 1pts per Jack, 2pts per Queen, King or Ace.
Any model with RT Speciality is considered as equiped with Transmitter
"Intruder Alert" Noice counter issued by Guard equiped by Tansmitter is not halved down by distance or cover, for all models equiped by transmitter or RT. Ace activated on Joker with Transmitter or RT can order a single model with transmiter to take an action.
Transmitter could be neutralized by hacker or jammer, but only if they succesfuly turn of the transmitters before Order or Intrudel Alert is called. In that case Noice counters for Intruder aler are halved down as usualy. Transmitters are off untill restarted, It is Major Action for 5+. Hacker and RT Specialist as per specialist rule (3+ or 2+). Then it can be hacked or jammed again and restarted again... You know, you need to find some occupation for your specialists.
So it means that if your guard is equiped with walkie talkie, he can rouse your commander from sleep easier. However if your hacker is going before him, the walkie talkie does not work and only the loudest yell will help you
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Ordered today and have in mind a blade and whistler taking on a vampire coven😀
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Just trying to plan my first game or two. How many points make a good game? how many is too many?
sorry for quoting myself but my question disappeared under a storm of other posts
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sorry for quoting myself but my question disappeared under a storm of other posts
Pg.33.
"A typical stealth mission will involve 50-75 points maximum."
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thank you
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thank you
No problems, just noticed it yesterday after having read your post.
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I'd recommend 50 points for a stealth mission. Less is more.
Guy
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I'd recommend 50 points for a stealth mission. Less is more.
Guy
Well, I have had 4 out of 8 models killed before Alarm was Raised. But still the reinforcement save the day...
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More would Die save my sniper sucked...
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Q:Two handed in the list of weapon attributes seems to be undefined...? (page 21: Melee Weapons, Notes on Bayonet for example, not explained on the Page 20 Table Weapon Special Ability)
A two handed weapon requires two hands! There is no other bonus - apart from the length of the weapon. A rifle fitted with a bayonet gains the 'blade' special ability and its length will beat most weapons for draws in CQC.
Q: Model A is in Reserve. Model B activates, choosing to Cautious Advance + Fire at Model A, but this puts him within line of sight of Model A. If Model A wants to fire at B as well, what order is the shooting resolved in?
A fires first, as B has moved into A's visual arc.
Q: Is there any range for Allure and Intimidation or is it LOS ?
For Allure, the model has to been observed by the enemy. Effectively Allure stops the enemy model's usual reaction on observation (open fire or calling 'Intruder alert'). Allure can only really be used in a Stealth mission, once the alarm is raised guards are under the full control of the defender.
Intimidation can be used at any time on one enemy model. Remember its a one use ability.
Q: Does Stealth Camouflage confer some sort of invisibility/invulnerability or can you reveal it to shoot at the model before it becomes hidden again? Not sure that makes any sense...
Think Predator. To shoot at a hidden target, you have to be able to observe it. I'd highly recommend using noise counters for Stealth Camouflage, as these counters increase the chances of the 'invisible' model being spotted.
Got a problem with Predators? Use suppression! Got a problem with the concept? You don't have to use all the toys in the box... I refer 'ground to map' play, so Stealth Camo should only be in Predator or Ghost in a Shell inspired games.
Q: If a mission says use up to 6 Blinds and I only have 3 groups of guys, can I put 3 blank Blinds down to confuse my opponent?
Yup!
Q: If I deploy forces as Blinds, can they cautious move around before revealing? And if so, what card do they activate on?
Blinds aren't supposed to move.
Q:Is changing a weapon a major or minor action?
Good question! I guess it depends on the weapon. Drop the assault rifle and draw a pistol would count as moving. Assemble a sniper rifle from a case or readying a heavy weapon, major action.
Q:What is the practical difference between silent and suppressed weapons?
Silent is subsonic!
Ok in game terms... silent creates no noise markers, although guards who have been hit can make an observation check to spot the shooter. Suppressed weapons creates noise markers (you can't silence the sonic boom) but grants no penalties for observation.
Q:Does a falling body generate noise- if so how much?
Is someone throwing enemies off buildings? As it's not an ongoing CQC, I'd say none but remember to mark where the body falls, as this too can be spotted by guards and cause the alarm to be raised. If the enemy model was alive when thrown off, I'd say two noise as they do a Wilhelm scream...
Q:Does point cost of Militia Ace should be 8 ½ (Veteran 6, Ace 2, Leader 1, +1DED - ½ )
Yes, there are some typos in the lists to my shame. I'll do a full eratta.
Q:Could be aerial deplyment be delayed? So the HALO troopers came in Turn2?
What would be the point? No enemy troops on the table, no game... Guards are only activated under certain conditions (see page 30). So by all means come in on turn 2 and give the defenders more chance to bring on reinforcements.
Q: how is it with squad upgrades? Will I pay 4 points for each of my agents or for 3-4 agents. How many points will cost same squad upgrade if I field only two or one Jack agents
Squad upgrades are for 'the squad'. You can pay half to equip an individual model I guess as with leaders, specialists and heavies...
Q: Specialist seems only as non-military staff as they have no armor upgrade possibility, right?
Usually yes, that was my original intent. However as specialists can be radio operators and field medics, there is a good argument that there should be the option for body armour.
Q: There are no point-buy rules for kings – when soldier becames heavy, as some heavy weapons are available to soldiers to.
It all depends what weapon the heavy is armed with. Some weapons are section level (such as the LMG or Underslung GL) and some are squad level (such as the RPG and the GPMG). Some are both (such as the DMR). It's quite confusing but I wanted to stick to real life TOE's.
Think of it a different way - it depends on what card you want your weapon to activate on. Ideally a Heavy (king) is there to support the squad (Jacks) who form the manoeuvre part of the squad. So it's useful to have two different cards.
Q: Can I activate Blinds or do the miniatures represented by the blinds just exist in that space until revealed? How many figures can be represented by one blind?
The purpose of blinds is to represent areas where enemy might be hidden. If you choose to activate the models hidden by a blind, the blind is removed. Any number of models (from 0 upwards) can be represented by a blind.
Hope that helps.
Guy
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My pre-order finally arrived yesterday, so I haven't had a chance to read the whole thing, but so far I'm really enjoying these rules. The core "move, shoot, fight" rules and player roster are familiar enough to traditional games that any experienced wargamer won't need constant references to the book during play, and all of the stealth additions are intuitive enough that it shouldn't take more than one game to get really familiar with them.
I'll post a full review on my blog once I've had a chance to digest the whole thing.
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1. What would be the point? No enemy troops on the table, no game... Guards are only activated under certain conditions (see page 30). So by all means come in on turn 2 and give the defenders more chance to bring on reinforcements.
2. It all depends what weapon the heavy is armed with. Some weapons are section level (such as the LMG or Underslung GL) and some are squad level (such as the RPG and the GPMG). Some are both (such as the DMR). It's quite confusing but I wanted to stick to real life TOE's.
Think of it a different way - it depends on what card you want your weapon to activate on. Ideally a Heavy (king) is there to support the squad (Jacks) who form the manoeuvre part of the squad. So it's useful to have two different cards.
3. Squad upgrades are for 'the squad'. You can pay half to equip an individual model I guess as with leaders, specialists and heavies...
4.Blinds aren't supposed to move.
Guy
Thank you Guy for clarification, There are some new questios based upon it, I have left tehm in the "quote with points"
1. its not exactly only about the stealth mission. For example, I deploy one part of my assault team on one point of the edge, and then I am waiting for arrival of the helicopter as sort of reserve to be extracted whenever I want for a soft spot in enemy defence. Or you know LRRP squad found an enemy and is calling for support. Or reserves came with HELO/APC extraction. Realy for the points it does cost now, there is no benefit in it. So I can take it as "yes you can delay arrival".
2. Cool, so if I am going to point buy a model which takes a heavy weapon its up to me to decide if he is King or Jack - if the weapon is squad support weapon - like M249, Stoner, LAW, etc. May be it could be clarified in the rules (add SSW as type of weapon to weapon abilities, as this is SSW weapon and can be handled by Jack, instead of King, it will be clear if using the point buy and not faction rules.
3. what exactly is the "squad" in game terms? It is not specified. We came to conclusion it can be 3-4 mens. But what about agents? THey dont have a squad in description - so can they take the squad upgrade and for how many models... To be honest, this is realy confusing. As much as I think I understand how it works, thats not realy clear in the rules. So please consider it only as a friendly chat about it - I mean no disrespect .-) Just I know some guys I am going to play BlackOps with who will lay this question immediately.
By the way the squad in Czechoslovakia People Armies in 80ties has squad developed according to APC. For BVP 1/2 the squad was 4 rifleman, 2 LMG , 1 Commander - 2 of the riflemans carry LAW. For OT64 it was RPG Guy with crew, LMG guy with crew, 4 riflemans and comamnder. Just for those who want to have some flavour in the game for conscript army.
4. well thats surprise for me. We understand from the description that if the blinds models loose their cover (move into open) or are spotted, they are no more blind. But if they are moving for example in thick forest, they are not visible according to our understandingof the rule.
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Hi there,
until now I'm through the rulebook once and in addition had an excellent chat with Guy on Crisis. Many thanks for taking the time, mate!mFinally we'll have our first game next week and I'm preparing the roster. Therewith a question occured that I can't answer myself:
Which importance do 'fireteams' have?
To be excact:
I'm building a force of US Army professionals. It has the size of a sqaud which is to be divided into a leader, two or three fireteams and a 'heavy' team with an M79 granade launcher (we're playing Vietnam).
How does the number fireteams influence the game?
Until now I understood that with 'jacks' all common soldiers are activated at the same time and may perform different action. Even members of the same fireteam may perform different actions.
Additionally I didn't find any rules to kerp the fireteams together.
So did I miss anything or are fireteams simply means of historical accuracy?
Cheers
Stefan
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Hi Monty..Yes great set of rules....I don`t have my rulebook to hand at the moment but....
I think a fire team if all stay within 3" can protect leaders and heavy`s that may be mixed in the group. Also maybe something to do with suppression two... Sorry but I have many rulessets in my head at the Mo... like GOA..!!!! Take a look at shooting and suppression Monty...
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I think a fire team if all stay within 3" can protect leaders and heavy`s that may be mixed in the group. Also maybe something to do with suppression two...
Thanks for the quick advice. This protection for allies in 3" is correct but it says 'group [...] of other visible allies'. So not a special fireteam rule.
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Thanks for the reply to the queries.
Has anyone tried to introduce guard dogs into their games yet?
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I did think about guard dogs for the game, sort of cheap guards but limited to an area - but we ran out of space.
Dogs would be a good addition, but don't make them too good. Dogs are fallable too.
Guy
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Guarddogs often act very single minded and - that is true- guard an area. There is also a chance, that they leave a close combat when they get hurt. And you can stop them with poisoned food. They are very fast and can discover something a long time before a human can. I think this should all be found in guard dogs.
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I had one of the guards as a dog handler in the first game I tried. He ended up patrolling around the factory perimeter away from the action for most of the game until he pretty much blundered into the secret agents on their way out. He did find time to release the dog before he was shot. In a bit of action verging on comic, 2 secret agent jacks fired several rounds at the dog and missed allowing the dog (which I rated at CQC of 3+) to bite a chunk out of the secret agent ace's backside!
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Will let you know how I get on with adding dogs in.
Has the FAQ list/file been updated yet btw?
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Has the FAQ list/file been updated yet btw?
Not yet, completing WS&S 82 currently! Expect a big FAQ come first or second week in December.
I like the dog ideas, please keep them coming!
Guy
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Not yet, completing WS&S 82 currently! Expect a big FAQ come first or second week in December.
I like the dog ideas, please keep them coming!
Guy
Will the ebook versions be updated with errata? I know with WargamesVault, you can download newer versions if you've already purchased a product, but I don't know how Osprey handles their electronic purchases.
- H8
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Finally got a chance to break out the terrain and drive these rules around the table this past long weekend, and they are far more elegant than I realized on first reading. The rules for activation, holding actions, and suppression fire are individually quite simple, but the way they interact on the table makes for a deep and rich tactical environment. Our game ended in a one-sided victory as quantity exuded the quality all its own on my poor special forces troopers. Great fun.
The big head scratcher for us revolved around the use of suppression fire. My heavy was perched up on a rooftop with a clear fire lane down an alley. She could see a trooper peeking around the corner, he had two mates behind him out of sight, and was presented with the choice between suppressing either at the figure or at a point on the ground an inch away from the figure. She popped off a volley of CPMG fire resulting in three suppression markers near the entrance of the alley, which resulted in my opponent moving his squad around the other side of the building. No real effect on the game, but a few things didn't sit right with us.
Why would you ever fire at a single figure to suppress when you can just fire an inch away from the figure and suppress anything moving through that area for the rest of the turn?
Suppose a figure moves into an area affected by multiple suppression markers. Does the first figure take the hit on one marker only, or do all of the markers affect the first figure to move through the area?
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Sorry for the thread necro but we've just tried Black Ops and have a couple of questions - is there somewhere better to ask them?
Has the FAQ surfaced yet?
Same question as above how does Area suppression work exactly?
I had 3 Insurgents in a building and the USMC lit up the outside wall.
They were all at the windows and within 3” of the suppression marker (as 6” of suppression is quite big!)
We assumed that if they pop up to fire they get hit by the suppression… but that undervalues individual suppression as the only difference other than the DED check to drive them away.
Also blinds – my guards were somewhat dopey and the USMC actually got into the compound and entered a building with one of my blinds in – we assume that they still have to roll to spot the blind?
Finally (for now) Stealth and the Ace – I assume that he has to be on table to be roused? So I have to place him if I want to start rolling to activate him?
I placed him early but I think this was a mistake as the USMC were pretty quiet until they kicked a door in and MG’d a room full of my guys at least…
Thanks
Rich
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Any news for this products?
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It's available from most of the usual wargaming stockists and from places like Amazon and Wordery. Great set of rules.
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Still waiting for the FAQ :(
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Bought rules recently. Waiting to play my first battle.
Rules seem to be clear but still there are some doubts. So waiting for FAQ/Errata too.
Greets