List of Perry Sudan Miniatures that can be used for the Second Anglo Afghan War

[Atheling]

Hi,

I'm hoping (praying!) that someone can help. The Perry's used to have a list of what codes from their British Sudan range could also be used for their Second Anglo Afghan War range on their old website.

I had copied the list to a Word file. However, that was on an old laptop which has since died.

I was wondering if anyone out there had kept a copy of the list?

If so, i would be very grateful if you could either leave a the list on this thread or PM me with said list (please!).

Thanks.

[Mad Guru]

Darrell,

I believe that would be the various packs of British Infantry, Indian service dress (SB21-SB25);

The 10th Hussars command (SB33) and swords drawn (SB34);

The Sikh Infantry packs (SB68-SB70);

And the various Bengal Cavalry command & with lances packs (SB74-SB76).

NOTE: I did not include the 3 x "Bengal/Bombay infantry" packs (SB71-SB73), because these all wear smooth khaki covers over their turbans which post-date the Second Afghan War, and as there now are some perfectly accurate Second Afghan War Perry Indian Infantry figures in their "Victoria's Little Wars" range, there's no need to do turban conversions on the Sudan range Bombay/Bengal infantry figures to make them fit the Afghan War, the way I did more than a decade ago.

You could also use the Royal Artillery 7 pounder Screw-gun and crew (SB45) -- though if you're picky you may want to remove the desert goggles from the officer's foreign service helmet, and possibly remove the puggarees from all the crew's helmets, as in Afghanistan they would probably have been wearing khaki cloth helmet-covers.  But if you leave all their helmets as-is and just paint them in khaki uniforms with blue puttees, I will in no way hold it against you!

[giorgio]

Thanks Mad Guru for the exhaustive summary. You are the best source for the period for all... but rules

[Atheling]

Darrell,

I believe that would be the various packs of Infantry, Indian service dress (SB21-SB25);

The 10th Hussars command (SB33) and swords drawn (SB34);

The Sikh Infantry packs (SB68-SB70);

And the various Bengal Cavalry command & with lances packs (SB74-SB76).

NOTE: I did not include the 3 x "Bengal/Bombay infantry" packs (SB71-SB73), because these all wear smooth khaki covers over their turbans which post-date the Second Afghan War, and as there now are some perfectly accurate Second Afghan War Perry Indian Infantry figures in their "Victoria's Little Wars" range, there's no need to do turban conversions on the Sudan range Bombay/Bengal infantry figures to make them fit the Afghan War, the way I did more than a decade ago.

You could also use the Royal Artillery 7 pounder Screw-gun and crew (SB45) -- though if you're picky you may want to remove the desert goggles from the officer's foreign service helmet, and possibly remove the puggarees from all the crew's helmets, as in Afghanistan they would probably have been wearing khaki cloth helmet-covers.  But if you leave all their helmets as-is and just paint them in khaki uniforms with blue puttees, I will in no way hold it against you!

Many, many thanks Ethan- you are, once again, a life saver! My compliments and appreciation sir! 

[dan97526]

Is there anything in the Sudan or Victoria's Little Wars that could pass for Corps of Guides infantry?

[italwars]

Is there anything in the Sudan or Victoria's Little Wars that could pass for Corps of Guides infantry?

Of great help is the head swapping technique..majority of available  Indian infantry castings (maybe avoiding those with blanket across body so the ones on Victoria Little Wars range are better) could be transformed in Guides Infantry..just purchase those Gripping Beast/Woodbine Designs "Hindu Heads"...even some few Sikh ones are nt' out of place in a Guide Unit even if, most probably, sikhs were pooled in a distinguished company or platoon..or maybe a Sikh veteran NCO could even be accepted as a leader by the majority of Muslim guides. British officers with pugaree are perfect for the guides.
Historically correct Guide types turbans with kullah but quite high turbans have been designed, from what i remenber, only on Willie 30mm figures that s the reason why, decades ago,  i beheaded some expensive Willie figures and provided Foundry Indian minis with their heads ..so if you 'rnt, as i hope for you,  an insane guy like me (and obviously like Umrha Kahn and Giorgio  ) you can do with those separated heads which i don't know why have been labelled  "Hindus" but, in fact,  their kullahs are OK to represent the Muslim sepoys that formed the majority of the Guides.
Last thing if i was you i would purchase, in case you consider the above explained surgery technique, some Foundry sepoys from NWF range instead of Perry ones..or, at least, buy just some ..Even if what they labelled "Guides" have the wrong turban (too much wide plus they got beards instead of moustaches) they sport the goatskin coat over the tunic which is iconic for the NWF.

[giorgio]

an insane guy like me (and obviously like Umrha Kahn and Giorgio    )

Italwars you are absolutely right. I had a unit of Sikh guides (work done by Umra Khan of course) and after few unsatisfactory fights, I have transformed them again in a Pioneer regiment

[italwars]

an insane guy like me (and obviously like Umrha Kahn and Giorgio    )

Italwars you are absolutely right. I had a unit of Sikh guides (work done by Umra Khan of course) and after few unsatisfactory fights, I have transformed them again in a Pioneer regiment

So Giorgio...can you, please, confirm me, as you just mentioned that those guys were former "Sikh Guides",  that it would have been possible and historically correct to have a full sub unit (maybe a company?) made out entirely of Sikhs among that iconic frontier unit (the Guides) ?

[Mad Guru]

Italwars my friend,

Though you may not be aware, your fellow countryman, Giorgio, while he may have many good qualities, is quite Evil!*  Because of this I don't think you can rely on him to answer your question, so in the interests of historical accuracy -- as well as goodness and niceness --  please allow me to assist you...

In "Hart's Annual Army List -- 1898," the entry for the Corps of Guides (Queen's Own) (Cavalry and Infantry), Regimental Centre, Mardan lists the following sub-units...

Cavalry:

1 Squadron Sikhs
1/2 Squadron Dogras
1/2 Squadron Punjabi Mohamedans
1 Squadron Pathans

Infantry:

2 Companies Sikhs
1 Company Dogras
1 Company Goorkas
2 Companies Pathans
1 Company Punjabi Mahomedans
1 Company mixed

So certainly by 1898, use of bespoke "Class" companies in the Corps of Guides is historically accurate.

During the earlier period between the post-Mutiny reorganizations and post Second Afghan War changes to recruitment and regimental class policy (largely driven by Lord Roberts' belief in the "Martial Races of India" theory when he was Commander-in-Chief, India from 1885-1893) I'm not sure if the Corps of Guides were a "mixed" regiment with different types of soldiers serving side-by-side in the same company, or a regiment made up of "Class Companies."  If I can find out I will post the info here, and if anyone reading this knows, please share!

*NOTE: The "Evil" referenced comes from a campaign which Giorgio, myself, and other members of this forum have been engaged in for the past year, over on this LAF thread: https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=131610.645.  I'm not posting the link in an effort at self-promotion, but to clarify that my above insult is meant only within the context of our ongoing miniature conflict!

[Atheling]

During the earlier period between the post-Mutiny reorganizations and post Second Afghan War changes to recruitment and regimental class policy (largely driven by Lord Roberts' belief in the "Martial Races of India" theory when he was Commander-in-Chief, India from 1885-1893) I'm not sure if the Corps of Guides were a "mixed" regiment with different types of soldiers serving side-by-side in the same company, or a regiment made up of "Class Companies."  If I can find out I will post the info here, and if anyone reading this knows, please share!

That would be brilliant Ethan.

[giorgio]

If you need good rules please avoid them, but if u need self declared historical support, shadowy clarifications or trivial  details I admit that the heretics Mad Guru and Umra Khan are two torches in the sunlight!

[italwars]

Thanks very much Giorgio  ..and very kind from you, Ethan, that you spend time reporting here for us those  precious infos..
Giorgio everything in my colonial wargame backdrop is shadowy, full of trivial details and above self declared (or self- appointed)..simply cause i'm a dark haired poor italian guy    and, during the various wargame fights that i participated against  our friend Umrha Kahn and even, recently,  against the newcomer British wargamer living here in Rome, Donald..i was allowed to play only with barefeet, primitivly armed tribesmen with few ammo and without supplies  that had to face beatifully painted castings, smartly uniformed and  equipped with machine guns and magazine rifles..so, at the moment as concern wargame, i can only afford a shadowy existence 

[Umra Khan]

If you need good rules please avoid them, but if u need self declared historical support, shadowy clarifications or trivial  details I admit that the heretics Mad Guru and Umra Khan are two torches in the sunlight!

2 torches in the sunlight ready to burn your malicious wazir's crops and towers !
 

[President Buer]

A cheap source of turbaned heads might be the Perry WW2 range which I imagine will fit onto the Perry colonial plastics with minimal work.