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Author Topic: Wars of the Roses Retinue unit banners  (Read 1781 times)

Offline robh

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Wars of the Roses Retinue unit banners
« on: 13 June 2024, 07:26:18 PM »
Question for those with more knowledge of the finer points of heraldry.

Richard Duke of Gloucester (before he became Richard III) was clearly a member of the Kings household when his brother Edward was on the throne, and as 3rd son of the reigning family had his own distinct version of the "royal" coat of arms.
But did the troops in his retinue at Tewkesbury carry his personal heraldry or the King's? Were his retinue "his" or was he the commander of an element of the king's troops.



Or something else entirely?

« Last Edit: 13 June 2024, 07:27:49 PM by robh »

Offline Sandinista

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Re: Wars of the Roses Retinue unit banners
« Reply #1 on: 15 June 2024, 06:38:37 AM »
I went for blue/murrey and a white boar

Offline Wilgut Spleens

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Re: Wars of the Roses Retinue unit banners
« Reply #2 on: 15 June 2024, 07:55:14 AM »
Truth is no one knows. I suspect that Richards troops carried his banners. He fought in a seperate ward to the king and after all he was a Duke!

What is known is that Richard and Edward both kitted out there men with Livery and badges, Richard issued 5,000 boar badges at some time during the WotR and one of the things he did in his brief tenure as king was to create the College of Arms, before which there was no official control of Heraldry.

I have a bad case of prescient nostalgia. The future's not what it used to be.

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Offline Atheling

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Re: Wars of the Roses Retinue unit banners
« Reply #3 on: 15 June 2024, 11:20:50 AM »
I would go with a mix of badges and liveries. We simply do not know.

With the caveat, they're your toys and you can paint them how you feel is appropriate- or even however you like :)

Offline robh

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Re: Wars of the Roses Retinue unit banners
« Reply #4 on: 15 June 2024, 07:43:49 PM »
Thanks guys, I am going to hedge bets and go with both  :?
His own arms as a banner for the MAA unit but the royal arms as banners for the bill units (these are for Lion Rampant in 15mm so only a few will be needed)

I went for blue/murrey and a white boar

That is what I envisaged as the "something else entirely".
 I have images of a Tewkesbury re-enactment event where Richard's troops have banners which are effectively a rectangular cut down version of his long pennant. St Georges cross on the staff with a single large white boar motif over the murrey and blue halved fly. This seems entirely logical.

 

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