Would Forstchen's "Down To The Sea" Fall Under VSF

[Cacique Caribe]

If anyone here is familiar with the Lost Regiment series, you may also be familiar with the last novel, Down To The Sea, which describes contact with a more advanced version of the Hordes . . . called the Kazan, and takes place some 20 years after the Lost Regiment is teleported to the planet Valennia:

http://www.fictiondb.com/author/william-r-forstchen~down-to-the-sea~117974~b.htm

These massive, simian-like Kazan are huge and consider humans cattle.  In addition, they rely more on technology than their Horde cousins.

Physical description of the Horde simians (with medieval Mongol technology):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_Cry#Tugar_race

QUESTION:

If someone were to pit Pole Bitwy's Simians against human soldiers with the technology described in Down To The Sea, should the humans be 15mm American WWI soldiers or from before WWI (perhaps like American troops around the time of the Boxer Rebellion)?

Pole Bitwy's Simians:

http://dropshiphorizon.blogspot.com/2009/11/pole-bitwy-15mm-sci-fi-simian-troopers.html
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=194390

It seems to me that by the time Down To The Sea takes place, the generation that followed the original Civil War Union soldiers experienced an accelerated technological spurt which allowed them to develop airships and early planes within the space of just a couple of decades.

The Kazan were a lot more advanced than that, of course, with large battleships and very high tech weapons for their infantry – and no longer horse-dependent like their Horde cousins.

Among the humans lead by the American veterans was a strong Russian element, from the very start of the Lost Regiment series (20 years before Down To The Sea).  The primary allies from the beginning were people of medieval Russian descent.

Now, in the Down To The Sea novel, the medieval Simians (Tugars, Merki, etc.) are NO LONGER the main threat.  Instead, their more advanced Simian cousins the Kazan are the real problem, and they seem to have a late 20th technological level (though, in some ways, I seem to remember more near future aspects).

So, technologically speaking, we are looking at late 19th century or early 20th century humans fighting against a late 20th century enemy (the Kazan).

Any thoughts?

Dan
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=197210

[rob_the_robgoblin]

I don't know, but there's no reason that you shouldn't game it!

When was it written?

[Trooper]

I think you have a good point there. I loved the Lost Regiment series, and was surprised to find no mention of it on this forum until now. It has all the elements of VSF. I haven't read Down to the Sea as yet, only the first five books. But for those VSF gamers who have not discovered the series, try it out it's brilliant.

[Westfalia Chris]

I really like the books, but never really considered them "VSF", but more of a traditional S&F variety. I couldn't lay my finger onto it, but it could be the whole "off-planet thing".

It has got aspects of Steampunk, what with all the stuff they cobble together on Valdennia. Then again, the rest of the world is (progressively less) medieval (with some ancients thrown in), and somehow it reads like a Wild West setting that just happens to be off-Earth.

I think it may be the style of storytelling, which is at the same time from a third-person narrator, but not omniscient in that the world is only described by the utterances of the acting figures, so it takes very long to get a more or less cohesive picture. That may be a subjective perspective, though - I'm sometimes irritated by discrepancies within the work of the same author, for example in how Anne Perry's "Monk" novels differ in feel from the "William Pitt" books, and it's not merely the 30 years between the settings; somehow, she tells them differently, and not necessarily for the better. "Monk" just manages to capture the mid-Victorian feel better than the Pitt books do for the late-Victorian one.

Similar thing with the SPQR and Falco novels - but IMHO that's due to the qualities of the authors, the Falco books never feel like anything else than a "noir crime" story with a "Roman whitewash" over it, whereas SPQR conveys a much more convincing image.

[Cacique Caribe]

What about the rest of you guys?

Do you think this post American Civil War tale of people on another world is . . .

VSF? 
SF?
Colonial? 
Or something else entirely?

Thanks.

Dan

[rob_the_robgoblin]

VSF.

It's Sci fi based during the victorian period.

[ushistoryprof]

VSF.

It's Sci fi based during the victorian period.

I would say Rob hit it on the nose.  The books read more like sci fi in the time of Victorians.  I do like the mix of older cultures (Romans, Asia and the like)that slowly are adding "Modern" (ACW Era) technology to their armies.  Gives a lot of posibble variety to play when you design a battle. Roman legionaires with gattling gun and 12 lb artillery support and the like.

[rob_the_robgoblin]

That's cos you're odd! 

Nah, strange concept though.

[former user]

Steampunk?

[ushistoryprof]

That's cos you're odd! 

Nah, strange concept though.

Odd...Odd, just because I spend boat loads of cash on little metal figures, hours painting little metal figures, hours thinking up games for little metal figures and more hours playing with little metal figures dosen't mean I'm Odd-crazy yes (my wife would definetly lean towards crazy and obsessive) but never Odd.

[Cacique Caribe]

Rob:  "Nah, strange concept though."

LOL.  Which part(s)?

Dan

[rob_the_robgoblin]

Giving Ancient Romans machine guns...

[Whiskyrat]

CC - I totally forgot about these - thanks for the kick.

Giving Ancient Romans machine guns...

cough *UW Junkers* cough