Portee guns in the Desert..an obscure subject

[italwars]

Hello
As my  title implies ..i m experimented difficulties in getting reliable infos on 8th Army RA/RHA portees fielded in 1940/41 against Italians...Portees are an essential artillery asset for quite a few wargame scenarios for the beginning of the war in the desert but the infos and, above all picts, available on line are scarse if not confusing...as concern 37mm portees i find almost everything i could need but, as concern the 2 pdr version, the only good picts available on line show the 2 pdr. guns mounted on big Ford F60L 4 X 4 3 ton CMP trucks.
In the meanwhile i purchased , from Buttler Printed Models, a 2 pdr. portee gun apparently mounted on a small CS 8 truck..but i'm little puzzled..i did'nt find any infos or picts confirming that ..the very configuration as shown in the BPM catalogue is a little weird, with the gun just gently resting on the truck sides and no idea of the fate of the two wheels...what do you think? could such a model/configuration have ever took the field?..first pict is from BPM web catalogue

[karlbergman]

I found some interesting information at https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235121365-2-pounder-portee-quetions/.  There they have pictures of both long bed and short bed 2pdr Portee vehicles.  One type looks like the one in your picture but not identical.  Hope this helps.

[robh]

I have never seen pictures of a 2lbr en-portee using a CS8 15cwt truck, only the Bofors 37mm AT gun (wheeled with the gunshield mounted) or German and Italian weapons.
As you say pictures of portees around the web are all of the larger 30cwt and 3 ton variants (Quad based) or the Chevrolet LRDG style ones.

The Australians used the 2lbr en-portee with a CS11 truck but that has a distinctly different look.

Regardless, that is a pretty dodgy (and I suggest incorrect) model. I would at the very least replace those overscale tripod legs and base pads and take the opportunity to show them folded up infront of the gunshield so that the weapon fits inside the truck bed.

[Harry Faversham]

KISS Principle must be evoked!
Suppose these things were just cobbled together in the field, they'd go with wot they'd got, right? so build three how you think looks good. Then state, categorical but unrevealed impeccable sauces, that's wot they look like... then just sit back smiling.
In a blink some sad nobber anorak will inundate yer with information and a ton of piccies of exactly what you were looking for, never fails. Simples innit, don't overthink this, you'll do yersen an injury.
Hope this helps?


  

[Panzer21]

Some info and discussion here:

https://ww2talk.com/index.php?threads/british-anti-tank-portees.95938/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1b1hbiw/british_37mm_bofors_port%C3%A9e_for_13/

https://hmvf.co.uk/topic/13021-bofors-37mm-anti-tank-gun/

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/morris-cs8-bofors-37mm-anti-tank-portee-t320510.html

Neil

[italwars]

Thanks to everybody for the time spent in searching such  elusive infos..useful answers but that, unfortunatly, confirm me that, from an historically point of view, there is no much place for my "strange" truck with 2 pdr gun on  portee

As you say pictures of portees around the web are all of the larger 30cwt and 3 ton variants (Quad based)

Please what do you mean with (quad based)?  maybe you're referring to the quad tractor used to carry 25 pdr field guns? such as the one made in 1/72 by Airfix?

[HerbertTarkel]

It?s a great subject, funky solutions are always the most fun to research and paint.

[robh]

Please what do you mean with (quad based)?  maybe you're referring to the quad tractor used to carry 25 pdr field guns? such as the one made in 1/72 by Airfix?

Yes, also known as a CS8 (C=Morris, S=6 cylinder 8= 8ft wheelbase) but FAT (Field Artillery Tractor) it came with a wide range of body styles not just the beetleback of the Airfix model. Usually with a 6lbr not the 2lbr, it is commonly seen in the famous photographs of Portees disguised as supply trucks by painted canvas sheeting. In conversion to portee not much of the bodywork remained!

Also I did find a picture of your little CS8 mk1 truck used en portee in service with the Free French (FFL according to the text), but mounting a French 25mm AT gun. Very simple little conversion:

[italwars]

Thanks also for those last infos..unfortunatly , for the moment, i need a 2 pdr portee for the British circa 1940/41 for Compass Operation, not for the Free French
Continuing my hunting for infos i found that colour plate , probably from an  Osprey seriies (i have quite a few of them including old Vanguard ones) but i cannot find in which issue the plate appeared...it depicts a 2 pdr gun on portee truck ..that truck seem quite small ..certainly not the CS 8 but, maybe , the 15 CWT made in Canada (CMP) of which i should have a pair  (see pict please)...but i'm not even sure of what my old two metal models exaclty represent..i bought them from Skytrex decades ago 
Maybe i could mount my gun, once the bed had been  converted,  on one of those two metal models?..if historically correct?

[carlos marighela]

Most of the photographic evidence I have seen showd the 2 pounder portee being mounted on various 30cwt chassis. Typically Ford F30s and Chevy WA and WB models. The Australian Army was an early adopter and after using the Chevy as a basis they seem to have standardised on CMP Ford F30s. You can see photos of these in the Middle East as well as near identical versions in home defence in Australia.

The later 6pdr versions tended to be mounted on 60cwt (Ford F60) and various CMP 3 ton vehicles.

Couple of links that may help.

https://www.o5m6.de/western/Portees.php

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/webarchive/20210104000423/http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-WH2-1Epi-t1-g1-t1.html

[robh]

That Osprey image is of a Ford F60L 3 ton CMP truck (3rd RHA).

If you have not found it yet this site gives some useful pictures and drawings of options for the 2lbr, but missing the Australian CS11 based guns:
http://www.o5m6.de/western/Portees.php#f30_2pdr

You could certainly scratch a portee rear onto a 15cwt CMP, this superb example is in 1/35th:


From "Ken-l" on Brit Modeller (https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235131127-2-pounder-portee-progress/)

[italwars]

Thanks Robh
Do you think that  a 3 ton CMP truck, such as the one in  the pict, has just the lenght of his bed and distance between wheel's axes greater if compared to those of a 15cwt CMP, but the driver cabin's size ( width and lenght ) are  aproximatly, the same? ..cause, in that case, it could be the best solution to convert a 15 CWT/CMP  into a 3 ton truck with 2 pdr gun.

[robh]

Yes, cab designs were standardised  and changes listed seem to be related to windscreen glass sizing, layout and angles (the slightly forwarded tilted 2 part screen is the later model).

The wheelbase extended 14" from the 15cwt to the 3 Tonner (101" to 115"). That conversion should be fairly simple, especially as a wargame model.

Did you see Gasoline Cowboy has released pt2 of his Op Compass scenario pack on Wargame Vault?