Modern Warfare Rule Sets?

[tomcat51]

I'm thinking of putting together a game of Modern British Vs. PLA, probably in 20mm. Any suggestions on rules? I'm looking to game up to company level sizes.

[freewargamesrules]

We use Arc of Fire for 20mm works well. Tried Force on Force but we couldn't get on with them but many people enjoy them.

[Arrigo]

A bit of uncalled for advice... decide if you want companies or platoons on the table they are two different game beasts.

For company level I would suggest the upcoming "I ain't been nuked mum" from Too Fat Lardies (it is an adaptation of IASBM from them).  Force on Force claims to be able to be used fro company sized engagements, but my experience is that with more than one platoon per side it become too slow. I never tried arc of fire but now is available as PDF on wargamevault. Another good choices, if a bit bland, is Cold War Commander using the alternative to have 1 stand equal one vehicle or a single squad. 

 Now two things pop up to my mind. As much you can have infantry fire under control (as ranges are concerned) when you have vehicles thing go a bit crazy in 15mm and larger "scales".  We (ok I was....) are trained to engage vehicles in excess of 2,000 meters while infantry firefights are under 400 meters.  I am not even 100 sure you can really have a company engagement in a 6x4 table without looking cramped. For company size games I use 6mm! In a similar table in 15mm I never put more than reinforced platoon. In that case FoF and Arc of Fire appears to work fine.

Now go PLA!


Arrigo

[Mako]

Look up SabreSquadron.

SabreSquadron.com

They've got a free set of test rules available, and are set up for company sized actions.

They are available for free, since it's just the demo version, without all the bells and whistles.

The production release is scheduled to be in a few months.

There are some good AARs on their website worth checking out too, with lots of nice pics.

I Ain't Been Nuked Mum, is another set worth considering, that may be released later this year (hopefully).  There've been some nice BATREPS from it as well.

[tomcat51]

Ok, cheers for the suggestions. Based on what you're saying, Arrigo, I'm probably better off going for platoon sized engagements then. I could still have vehicles if I went for armoured/mechanised infantry platoons.

[tomcat51]

As a matter of interest, where would I find 6 and 10mm miniatures, I'm purely a 20-28mm gamer soa far, 6mm is not a scale I know much about.

[Cherno]

6mm: GHQ and C-in-C.

10/12mm: Pendraken and Minifigs.

[Arrigo]

As a matter of interest, where would I find 6 and 10mm miniatures, I'm purely a 20-28mm gamer soa far, 6mm is not a scale I know much about.

Also H&R, their latest release are very very good and they are cheaper than GHQ. Their T-55 is on par with the GHQ one and the KPA and Chinese stuff is great. The older releases are not as good, but the new team is improving moulds and casting technique.

Well about company and platoons... years ago I was preparing a platoon size scenario (in 28mm) for a convention in Italy... my cousin persuaded me to go up we end up with a company size action ofk we had a big table but it was extremely big, too many people to move and fire... and end up more like a crowded soccer match than a real battle and we were using an extremely simple rule set (We Can Be Heroes, an old and simple thing). If we had to do this with FoF (ok at the time it was not even in the making) probably we would have killed ourselves.  The problem with these games is... everyone want the top beast (MBT or elite units), you do not maneuver (no space), firing slow down playing too much. It was a good show anyway (the table was really good), but a platoon attack would have been more fun.

Normally I do squad+ in 28mmm, platoon+ in 15mm, everything larger in 10mm or 6mm.

[Chuckaroobob]

I use Iron Ivan's "Disposable Heroes," which has modern supplements like "Man Among Men", "By The Knife", "Seek out, close with, and destroy", "Long Road South" in 28mm.

[tomcat51]

Thanks for all the help and suggestions

[Mako]

Another thing to consider for the Cold War, depending upon your rules set, is that modern combat is very lethal, so your game could be over in a matter of literally minutes (like in real combat), if you go with a platoon-sized game, especially for tank on tank battles.

In my opinion, company level battles with tanks and other armored vehicles are needed at a minimum, unless you are playing solo, or one on one.

[Arrigo]

Mako well, depends.... (and actually you put a big disclaimer... 1 to 1...)

time scale of your rules, terrain, and so on. Actually a good scenario will not end too quickly even with tanks. Actually the more stuff you cram on your table the more lethal it become because you do not have space to maneuver.

One good thing is always to ask yourself, when you design your scenario, why your force is there. Like if you are using a low level set and you have two tank platoons engaging at less than 200 meters in open terrain... why the hell they are there?

Let's face it, one on one with bigger than 6mm and tanks requires either large tables (bigger than 6x4) or cramped terrain. Well but your Steel Beast (TM)* in urban terrain and you will see more engrossing games.

In 6mm companies are much better but still the terrain is important (there is a reason why real terrain is rarely a billiard table...).

But I think that the crux is... if you want 1 to 1 you need to tailor your scenario to certain constraints (and they will be usually infantry dominated). If you want to have plenty of tanks you need either very big tables or smaller scale, otherwise you will not solve the lethality problem (you increase the survivability of the force (more thing kill before wiping it out)s but because you cram them on a constricted area you also give more opportunities for kills.

[Arlequín]

Short of a close in 'knife-fight' like that the Berlin Brigades would have fought, or an ambush in close terrain, I'd imagine that a tank unit commander would be facing a court-martial for taking his troop/platoon in so close... that's what infantry are for.
 

[Arrigo]

The interesting thing is that I had a similar discussion last month with a PLA tank officer!  We were discussing tanks and simulations (he has been converted to wargames) and the distance/close in thing. One thing he ibserved is that often gaming tables are too cramped but flat, or that in map based wargames often designers of tactical scenario throw in all the fancy kit... then the discussion wandered on what loadout is best, if you want more sabot or more HE-FRAG...

Said that I also told me that the Type 96 is essentially a Type 69 hull with a new turret.... John of Kurasan... you are around this thread...


Arrigo

[julesav]

You could check out the Modern variant/mods for Rapid Fire and simply forget the notional 1 figure = 8 'real blokes' scale. TooFatLardies are proposing a set of rules for Moderns - seems intended for 'stan but may be more flexible, Lardies rules usually are. Many people are loving the Lardies Chain of Command rules for WW2 platoon plus level games so the modern variant might be just what you're looking for?