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Author Topic: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?  (Read 1203 times)

Offline Parrot

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  • Posts: 102
Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« on: May 01, 2017, 05:47:23 AM »
Are these figures supposed to be of the same time period as the Northstar 1672 range?  They look similar but I noticed that the front rank seem to have belts, while northstar do not.

Offline georgec

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Re: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 08:13:58 AM »
Nearly...  The Front Rank figures are advertised as 1685 to 1700 (i.e. start date around the Monmouth Rebellion).  I found a reference to the French army replacing the shoulder-mounted baldric with a belt in 1683.

Offline delbruck

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 281
Re: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 09:47:44 AM »
Clearly there was some overlap. In the mid 1680s many nations started to replace one shoulder belt with a waistbelt. The North Star range is mostly the uniform for the period prior to the Front range. One clear exception would be the Spanish, whose old uniform design lasted much longer. There were possibly others. Most probably went from the 1670s style to the waistbelt with matchlock and apostles (as seen on the Front Rank figures). Some might have taken longer (perhaps the Dutch) and went directly from the 1670s style uniform directly to waistbelt and flinlock.

 
« Last Edit: May 01, 2017, 09:53:39 AM by delbruck »

Offline Parrot

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Re: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2017, 11:59:33 PM »
So for the Franco-Dutch war, the Northstar 1672 range without belts would be more appropriate than the Front Rank range with belts? 

Offline Arthur

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  • Posts: 2169
Re: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2017, 06:55:35 PM »
Definitely : the Front rank range won't work for the Dutch wars if you are picky about uniform details.

It's not just the accoutrements anyway : the cut of the coats had also evolved by the 1680's, with longer sleeves now reaching the wrist instead of ending at mid-forearm. The North Star French figures with their sleeves ending at the elbow are even a tad too early for the Dutch war, being more typical of the 1665-1670 period - but I'm really nit-picking here.

Also, the 1672 range cavalry are mostly wearing buff coats over cloth garments, whereas buff coats would be almost universally worn under the cloth uniform coat from the 1680's onward.  

Offline Patrice

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  • Breizh / Brittany
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Re: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2017, 08:58:29 PM »
Waist belts were introduced c. December 1683 (says René Chartrand, Osprey's "Louis XIV's Army").

Engravings of the mid and late 1680's show belts instead of the earlier bandoulières (however there are still mentions of bandoulières for militias in the 1690s).

As Arthur says, the coat cuffs and sleeve length also evolved.

If you wish to represent the French-Dutch wars in the 1670s you should avoid waist belts and long sleeves (if you really care about it).

Offline Arthur

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Re: Front Rank Miniatures late 17th century?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2017, 10:22:16 PM »
I'm pretty sure I have posted the images below somewhere already but I'll be damned if I remember which topic, so here we go again.

The first pic shows a typical French musketeer from the late 1660's and 1670's with crossed bandoulières, one for the apostles and one for the sword :



Next is a side view of the short-lived 1683 equipment now worn on the waistbelt except for the powder flask (the length of the man's musket is obviously grossly exaggerated here) :



This is the improved fourniment introduced circa 1686-1688 and pretty much universal among front-line troops by 1690-1692 : it now has a protective leather flap which covers the powder flask and bullet bag. Note the bayonet scabbard protruding from under the flap:



As Iain said, the outdated crossed bandoliers remained in use among second line troops (particularly city and provincial militia units) until at least late in the C17th as issuing them with the new equipment was not considered a priority.

 

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