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Author Topic: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)  (Read 3793 times)

Offline Major_Gilbear

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10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« on: May 26, 2017, 09:41:25 AM »
After recent discussions with various other LAFers here, I realised that I really fancied doing some 6/10mm scale models, and that this would be a great excuse to also finally get something done for Kings of War.

Kings of War is a mass fantasy battle game by Mantic, and is a very simplified version of the old WHFB school of games. Written by Alessio Cavatore, the rules are short, easy, and intuitive, but the game still offers a pleasing amount of subtlety and customisation options without making everything too hard to keep track of. Rules and core army lists are all free here, with the printed book versions adding in magic items, more scenarios, and additional units for armies.

For me, the problem with games like KoW is the number of models required to play. Specifically, these cause me the following issues: I'm a glacially slow painter, storage of all the armies is problematic, and gaming space is rather limited (which makes 6'x4' tables tricky). Therefore doing this project in 10mm has crossed my mind a few times over the years, but it was seeing this epic thread on Wargamerau that finally tipped my hand.

I did some research, and there's quite a few nice-looking options for 10mm fantasy models nowadays, and I therefore decided to try and avoid GW's Warmaster models where possible. Not because I don't like them, but because I felt that I wanted to explore other options, and because the project would (hopefully) be rather cheaper that way. Besides that, KoW isn't a GW game (despite a number of obvious nods), and so I felt that my armies for KoW should likewise not be GW, even though having the odd model here and there is acceptable if I can't find anything else I like enough.

I decided to start with Elves, as these tend to be fairly elite/forgiving to play and I should be able to get up to a good army size with relatively few figures. Depending on how these go, I will then consider another army (probably Ratmen, but Abyssal Dwarves and Undead are also looking tempting).

After placing some orders, two weeks back, I started receiving some small heavy packages these last few days, and so last night I finally made a tentative start.

I bought bases from Renedra, some Pendraken High Elves, and some Kallistra High Elves. I also cheated and got three Warmaster High Elf bolt throwers, as I couldn't find any by other manufacturers that looked remotely decent. Here's the stuff all laid out:



This little lot should give me (roughly):

10 stands of Spearmen
8 stands of Archers
4 stands of Cavalry (i.e., Silver Helms)
4 stands of Light Cavalry (i.e., Ellyrian Reavers)
6 stands of various sword-wielding elves (Place Guard... Er Swordmasters of Hoeth?)
3 stands of Chariots
3 stands of Bolt Throwers
4 stands of Scouts with bows (i.e., Shadow Warriors)
2 stands of Forest Shamblers (i.e., Treekin)
Loads of characters!

With a few small exceptions, that's basically everything in the army list!  lol

I got rather excited when all the above arrived, so I placed a few figures on bases to see how they would look:



And last night after dinner, I made a start. Being a while since I'd modelled anything this small, I decided to start with the Forest Shamblers, which seemed fairly easy. These are Pendraken's Tree Elementals (code: FAN-MON4), and as these had no mouldlines or flash, I managed to get these 95% done including magnets set into the base:



I then made a start on the core troops - Spearmen. I had some from Kallistra, which are on strips, and some from Pendraken which were loose. I decided that 10 on a base looked a bit cramped width-wise and a bit sparse from the side. I therefore committed to clipping the strips up and filing the integral bases down so that they sit more flush to the base. Doing this lets me spread the models out a bit more on the base too, and should help to give the units a more "full" look from different angles despite having slightly fewer models per base. This is simple enough to do, but the additional clipping and filing will take a bit longer than I'd like unfortunately. Anyway, I managed to get the first stands' worth done:



I noticed that although the Kallistra models were originally bought from Pendraken and then tweaked (for example, mounting them on the strips), I also noticed a few other small differences. There is a pennant hanging from the spear which serves to strengthen a fairly flimsy part of the model, and the shields are a slightly different shape too. The Kallistra ones also have a few small variations in pose, whereas the Pendraken ones are all one pose. There's a side-by-side of the two at the bottom of the above pic for anyone who cares about these things!

I also noticed that the Pendraken ones are much better cast (almost no mouldlines or flash), and that the metal is slightly softer. Whilst I do prefer the shields and the pose variations of the Kallistra models, and I think the pennants are a nifty (and very Elven) way of strengthening the spears, I would probably go all-Penraken for the Spearmen if I were to start this project again. The better quality casting combined with the models coming loose is just so much easier to work with!

As I have enough to do a fair few stands, I am going to do one unit with Pendraken, and one with Kallistra, using the small variations between the sculpts to tell the two units apart. The non-armoured Pendraken Spearmen will get mixed with a few Archers to make some Sea Guard. I have no idea if Sea Guard are any good in game-terms, but I always liked the GW scheme of white/silver/teal for them, with spots of gold and red as accents, so I will likely use that as a scheme for the whole army. Therefore, it also seemed reasonable to include some Sea Guard, and it could also be a nice excuse to consider some Water Elementals in future too.

Anyway, I'm also a bit stumped on how to paint and base the models. Really big models aside, if I fully base them all first, painting them is going to be a ****; if I paint them and then base, I'm more than likely going to balls up the paintjobs. So far, I think I'll put down base colours with some simple shading on all the models, then base them, then do some tidying up and the details to the front rank. As this is not something I've had issues with previously (Epic models are smaller at 6mm, and the bases are easier to get into), I'd appreciate any advice on method from experienced folks!

Hopefully more to show off after tonight's efforts, but please do ask if you have anything you want more pix of - I know that getting manufacturer's photos of these figures is difficult. :)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 01:29:01 PM by Major_Gilbear »

Offline jambo1

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 05:17:43 PM »
Great start to your project, I will be following this one as I am planning something similar with 10mm fantasy. :)

Offline fred

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 06:36:33 PM »
Cool. Always great to see another 10mm project.

Have you gone with an inches to cm conversion for KoW? I did some KoW2 play testing using 10mm figures with this scale, and it lets you play with a normal force in a very small area. You do have to be a little careful in moving troops as a small nudge, can translate into a significant distance, by accident.

Those Pendraken Tree men are cool - Ive not got any of those new sculpts. For my Forest Shamblers I used a right mix of figures, I wish those tree men sculpts had been around a few years ago.

I always fully paint close order troops before basing. This is were the strip cast figures really help! My top tip is to mix brown paint with the PVA glue, then when you add sand, most of the sand gets coloured brown. A quick wash and then a drybrush finsihes off the earth colour. Getting dabs of PVA between the figures for flock I don't find too much of a problem.

In KoW1 Sea Guard were awesome (too good!) they got heavily tweaked in KoW2, but we haven't played enough to know quite how good they are. I seem to recall they were reasonably balanced. Not so good at shooting as archers, but decent in combat.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 09:06:06 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments guys..  :)

@ fred:

Yes  I'm going with 1" = 1cm. I have also scaled the bases to suit the KoW unit base sizes, but rounded the depths from 16mm to 20mm deep, and I bumped up the 20mm deep ones up to 25mm to maintain relative ratio. Units based on models that are based on 20x20mm at 30mm scale are therefore on 40x20mm bases, and those on 25x25mm are on 50x25mm. Likewise large infantry are on 50x25mm.

I appreciate the advise on basing, and on the Sea Guard too - thank you! :)

Offline grubman

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 11:24:05 PM »
Anyway, I'm also a bit stumped on how to paint and base the models. Really big models aside, if I fully base them all first, painting them is going to be a ****;

I'm more or less just here to subscribe for awesome pics to come :)

...with only 2 weeks of painting 10mm under my belt I shouldn't be giving "advice"...but I can say it's very easy to paint the minis separately (I glue them to a strip of wood), but when I went back and tried to touch up that unit I already based, it was next to impossible to get at anything between the ranks.  There is NO way I could have effectively painted them if they were based first...but maybe that's just me.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2017, 08:37:28 AM »
Thanks grubman. As a 6mm wargamer initially, this is a completely new scale for me - so all advice is welcomed, and yours is still more 10mm experience than mine!  :P

From what's been said then, paint -> base -> finish/touchup seems to be the way to go.

Pondering a bit more, I think I'm going to go with a bare earth colour on the bases, using a tan plus a wash to avoid needing to get the paint in between the models to much, and to avoid needing much drybrushing either. The edges will be black (usual for me), and I'll use some teeny-tiny tufts I have to add a grassy effect. Hopefully it won't all look too dark.

I have puttied and textured my Forest Shamblers, and sanded down some more spearmen. No pix of this, as there's not much to see, but I'm hoping to paint the Shamblers this weekend (bank holiday, so three days long! :D), and I'll post some pix of my efforts then.

Offline fred

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2017, 03:28:58 PM »
The right basing can really help lift the figures.

I'd ensure that your basing contrasts well with the colour scheme of the figures, you don't want everything blending together.

For high density units then you wont see a lot of the basing and you can keep it simple. For the Forest Shamblers you may want to add a bit extra as quite a lot of the base is visible. This can be a few rocks, some tufts, even a small bush or two. Nothing too complex, but just something to break up open areas.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2017, 11:10:47 PM »
Well I had planned to do a step-by step of the Forest Shamblers, but as I was making fast progress I forgot to take many WIP pictures! :(

I did get a shot of them primed grey:



And here they are all finished:




And just to show how small even these monstrous-sized troops are, here's one pic scaled to "actual size":



All comments and suggestions on these welcome - they are my initial test models afterall. For grass tufts on the troops, I'll probably trim them down a bit as even the small 4mm tufts I've used here are still quite bushy for this scale.

The first unit of elf spearmen is still being prepped, but (sore fingers permitting) should hopefully be up soon. Although I have chosen a white/silver/teal scheme for them which is more involved than the Forest Shamblers above, I still expect them to paint up without too many issues (hopefully). :)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 01:29:35 PM by Major_Gilbear »

Offline grubman

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2017, 11:17:59 PM »
Wow, very nice.  I especially love the eyes!  Your going to make me look bad, haha! 

Offline Tomsche

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2017, 07:26:22 AM »
Those elementals look absolutely gorgeous!

Offline fred

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2017, 07:41:49 AM »
They have come out lovely. The eyes really bring them to life!

The bushy tufts work great with these figures, probably as they are large forest creatures. I still find the odd large tuft works with 10mm figures.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2017, 07:55:00 PM »
Thanks for the comments guys!

I am pleased with the eyes too - I was going to do them glowing turquoise, but the green seemed more "tree-like" somehow. I mixed a bit of the same green with some brown wash and put a little bit around the faces too, to draw attention to them and add colour, but I don't think it's very obvious in the photo. Ah well. :)

@ grubman:
Nah, your stuff looks very nice, and I'm certain you'll get a lot more than me done too!  lol

@ fred:

I matted down the tufts with some thinned matte medium. This removes the fake-looking shine of the static grass in the tufts, and helps to stop them shedding little bits everywhere. I was going to trim them a bit with some little nail scissors too, but I think I quite like the more bushy effect on these.

___________________________________

I did more work on the spearmen today, getting the Dremel out to speed up the work on getting the cast-on basing strips removed. This was rather effective, but I did cook my fingers a bit!

What struck me whilst prepping them was that I could in fact just trim all the pewter bases off the troops, and mount them on pins for painting. The bases could then be made separately, and as long as I leave eight fairly flat and texture-free spots on the base, I can just pin the finished models onto the finished base and save myself the aggro of trying to get between the models with a brush later.

Whilst this obviously works well for 28mm, I've not done it with 10mm before... Has anybody here tried this before? Does it work okay?

Offline Hobgoblin

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2017, 05:54:10 PM »
Those tree creatures are superb! As others have said, the eyes are fantastic.

As a result of this thread and grubman's, I've succumbed to the temptation to dabble in 10mm. I've ordered a few Copplestone bits and bobs to see how quickly they paint up. One thing I found when trying to get 15mm elements done for Mayhem was that they actually took longer to do than my 28mm HotT elements, because they contained six or nine figures rather than three. I wonder, though, if 10mm might be quite a bit quicker. So I'll be watching this thread with especial interest.

Offline Major_Gilbear

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2017, 07:33:52 PM »
My first miniatures were 6mm (GW's game "Epic"), and although getting basing around them on the old "five-spot" bases was tricky (getting between the models' feet was especially difficult) it was actually pretty quick otherwise. It is perhaps why despite being a very slow painter it was the only time I ever managed to have two fully-painted armies of considerable size.

Getting into 10mm has therefore been both nostalgic and refreshing for me. The model size is big enough for reasonable detail, but is still quick to paint. I honestly cannot remember the last time I started and finished a model in one sitting, but both stands of Forest Shamblers were done in an afternoon. :)

So far, getting the Kallistra elves off their base strips has been the most tedious tasks for me on this project, but everything else has been dead easy. Pendraken are worthy of special mention too for their excellent casting quality and for having virtually no mould lines.

Anyway, I've been bitten badly by the 10mm bug and it looks like Undead will be next after Elves - complete with vampires and giant wights! Still, first things first, ahem.. ;)

Offline Bren

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Re: 10mm Fantasy Armies for Kings of War - Various (Elves)
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 10:05:38 AM »
Those Shamblers look superb; the basing compliments the paintjobs perfectly.

As a result of this thread and grubman's, I've succumbed to the temptation to dabble in 10mm ...

:). I'm getting that feeling myself. I have a load of those Kallistra elves I bought over a year ago which are in need of some attention. I made a start on them with a standard blue & white colour scheme but didn’t get very far before being distracted by other things.
There is also a box of TB Line Gauls in a draw somewhere which would make a nice fantasy Celt army. I suspect I may be joining in with 10mm Fantasy goodness soon.



 

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