WW1 British transport in Russia

[Bullshott]

This post falls somewhere in between WW1 and BoB, but I guess this board might give me a better response.

Can someone out there help with suggestions for vehicles (and who makes them) to accompany 28mm British army troops for the North Russia Expeditionary Force in WW1?

I am looking for some or all of the following:

1 - an armoured car of some sort - who makes the best model and what options are there other than Rolls-Royce and Lanchester?
2 - transport for a machinegun section
3 - transport for a command group
4 - a lorry of some sort to act as general transport or as an objective in scenarios
5 - something to tow/transport an artillery piece - this will most likely be a mountain gun - how would this most likely be transported in the Russian winter?

 

[aircav]

Try sloppy jalopy:
http://www.sloppyjalopy.com/

They do Ford AA, thorneycroft & are due to do a fiat trucks. Crossley cars & a Austin Armoured car.


Keith 

[dodge]

Try sloppy jalopy:
http://www.sloppyjalopy.com/

They do Ford AA, thorneycroft & are due to do a fiat trucks. Crossley cars & a Austin Armoured car.


Keith 

Agreed, but they are 1/48 scale and so potentially quite huge compared to other makers, i.e it doesn't fit well with any hlbs stuff or copplestone rolls royce.

What about company b the do a whole range of vehicles.

As for pulling artillery weren't they still doing horse drawn in WW1 russian revoluion and Back of beyond.

As for a machine gun section wouldn't they just carry it round on what they could?

what do you think ?

dodge

[Plynkes]

I don't know how they'd manage in a Russian winter, but the standard way of transporting a mountain gun is to disassemble it and carry it on the backs of a bunch of mules. That's the entire point of them. They can go across terrain that other guns cannot, such as up a mountain, hence "Mountain gun."

I have the SJ Thorneycroft truck. It is sitting in bits in my "to do" pile. I was hoping for the usual thing you get with wargamer models (i.e. maybe a lump of resin you have to glue a few metal bits to). What I got was a mass of tiny parts and pretty unclear instructions concerning how they fit together. Thus they never seem to make it to the front of the building queue. Unless you are the sort that thrives on resin aeroplane kits which force you to do detective work to figure out their construction procedure, I cannot really recommend them.

[carlos marighela]

1. Armoured car. The only armoured cars in use in North Russia were a small number of Austins, in White Russian hands IIRC. They saw very little service as the terrain didn't really suit their deployment.Sloppy Jalopy make an Austin as do OG I think. The Sloppy Jalopy is a Third Series Austin so it would be closer to the mark, You'd need to swap the machineguns for maxims. Apparently the Sloppy Jalopy kits are a beast to put together.

Of course you could go the whole hog and deploy either a MkV hermaphrodite or a MkB tank, there was a detachment in Nth Russia. Brigade do the former.

2. Depends on when  and where you want to depict. In winter sleds/sleighs were commonly employed. Copplestone do a range for Arctic Exploration. I understood HLBPS produce(d?) drivers for these. Beyond that most transport was either by barge or train depending on which front the troops were deployed. Presumably battalions deployed with their associated GS wagons and gun carts but that's by no means certain especially in the early phase as the deployment was nominally sedentary, guarding warehouses in Archangel.

3. Horses ( well local ponies) there's a good photo of a British officer and his White counterpart on horseback going forward under a flag of truce.

4. Lledo years gone by do suitable diecasts.

5. To the best of my knowledge mountain guns weren't deployed in Nth Russia by the British army. Standard limber arrangments for a gun. Th Canadian battery that featured so prominently at Toulgas and elsewhere was equipped with 18 pounders. Every man and his dog make one. Oddly enough I like the OG one best, although generally I'm not a fan. It's a clean kit and you get a surfeit of useful crew, useful for crewing diecast transport.

[dodge]

I have the SJ Thorneycroft truck. It is sitting in bits in my "to do" pile. I was hoping for the usual thing you get with wargamer models (i.e. maybe a lump of resin you have to glue a few metal bits to). What I got was a mass of tiny parts and pretty unclear instructions concerning how they fit together. Thus they never seem to make it to the front of the building queue. Unless you are the sort that thrives on resin aeroplane kits which force you to do detective work to figure out their construction prodecure, I cannot really recommend them.

I have made the thorneycroft truck, it went a bit wrong hence I never posted a pic as the cab looks weird, which was my own fault really,

but the number of times I stuck my fingers together with super glue doesn't bear thinking about.
Then you may need to fill in the gaps with filler, which I did not do.

It was a bit beyond my modelling capability really, which was the odd airfix plane or gw tank many years ago.

if I practice enough on other models then my skill may improve but then you don't want to mess up a £10 -£15 model do you.

Thing is I do like the look of the kits and the range that SJ do.

dodge

[carlos marighela]

Oh and Great War Minaitures make the caissons for the 18 pdr but only Foundry make the limber and horses.

[Poliorketes]

Apparently the Sloppy Jalopy kits are a beast to put together.

The Austin is the one exception as it's body is a block of resin. The Thornycroft is a hellish thing to assemble.

[Bullshott]

Thanks for the feedback - I must have a closer look at some of these vehicles. I have my basic troops on order from HLBS (if their response is uo to their usual standard I should have the figures by the end of this week).

I want my force to be used for NREF or in Siberia (I will overlook the fact that the winter coats and hats of the Siberian troops were different). I've been having some thoughts about the transport . Let me know what you think ....

Motor vehicles will be for NREF (and for Back of Beyond games). Transport will probably end up as 2 or 3 Model T's in various, unless I find something nice from Lledo or similar (I have better things to do with my time than struggle with the SJ Thornycroft). If I go for armour the idea of an 'allied contingent' in the form of Whites in an Austin A/C is tempting, but I'll see how things work out.

Artillery - However, the Osprey book 'British Artillery 1914-19 has a nice photo of a 3.7" mountain howitzer deployed in Russia in 1919. Since I have 2 of these from Battle Honours they will do fine for NREF (one deployed and one in towed mode with trail closed). I might make a pony or mule team to pull one of my guns (picture of the towing arrangement with a 2.75" gun in the Osprey). For Siberia I will have to go for an 'allied contingent' - probably Czech.

Does anyone have any evidence for mortars or other mountain guns in use by the British in Russia?

Armoured Train - essential for big battles in Siberia, but definately not essential for a starting force!

Non-motor transport:

Sleds - I have ordered a couple of the HLBS sled drivers, so I will be going for Copplestone sleds. I might also scratch-build a sled holding a dismantled Vickers gun for my MG section.

Skis - The Osprey book 'The British Army in World War I (3)' has a nice picture of a soldier in 'mobile' clothing on skis pulling a sled. Again, I have ordered some of the HLBS arctic explorers on skis. These will convert very easily into a recce patrol. I may even give them a sled.

Cossack ponies - I must have an officer mounted on one

Sleigh - anyone know where I can get a 'Dr Zhivago' sleigh from?

[Helen]

If memory serves me correctly, the majority of movement (during their short stay) was completed by rail with clearing patrols ahead of the train.

I've a complete library on this period so I'll need to take some time to once again digest some of the material.

Company B are producing some nice vehicles for this period, so please keep them in mind too.

Helen

[Bullshott]

If memory serves me correctly, the majority of movement (during their short stay) was completed by rail with clearing patrols ahead of the train.

From what I've read so far, the British troops in Siberia conducted all their movement by train or on foot (except those officers who had acquired cossack ponies, like the commander of the battlallion of Middlesex Regt). Motor transport would have been more available with the NREF to the west, but even in that force the average Tommy would have still been travelling by foot or train.

[Cory]

For the ANREF the Americans used the Stokes mortar extensively so I would assume the British did as well.

For winter transport of guns the Canadian regt. used a crude ski/sled arrangement for the 18 pounders and retained the caisson year round.

[aircav]

I don't get all the negativity about the SJ stuff i have the Ford AA & had no problems making it, it was no worse than building a plastic kit & far superior to some of the shite produced by other companies.

[Bullshott]

Regarding artillery, my copy of 'At War With The Bolsheviks' arrived today via Amazon (not bad, since I only ordered it 2 nights ago). There are a couple more pictures of a 3.7" mountain howitzer - one deployed and one on mule back. Now all we need is for some nice supplier to do a set of 2 of these guns (one gun deployed and a second packed onto mules), not unlike Brigade's 2.75" mountain gun set .... please, please .....

[Bullshott]

The first figures of my force (so far without vehicle and artillery) have been posted on the BoB board: