Newbie with basing questions re Wars of the Roses

[Winston]

Hi all - I'm actually a returning gamer but am basically a newbie as the bulk of my experience was with Warhammer 20 years ago!
I'm looking to gradually build a Wars of the Roses army and have invested in some Perry 28mm plastic infantry. Very neat and affordable they are too.
I've had a go at painting a few up. Done 12 so far, 6 archers, six billmen, but I'm not sure how best to base them in terms of numbers? I've seen both individual, three to a base and four to a base in pics online. Presumably there are ruleset considerations in play? I was guessing at three to a base as that seems to be most common? Or does it basically not matter? Any and all advice appreciated.

[Plynkes]

It is almost entirely dependent on what rules you are going to use.

If you aren't committed to a particular rule set, you could always base them individually and also get some of those what they call "sabot bases." They are like little movement trays that the individual figures can sit in. A bit more effort, but the best of both worlds.

This is the type of thing I mean:



(Not my picture, just did a quick LAF search and pinched somebody else's.  Thanks levied troop!)

Oh, and hi! Welcome aboard!

[Charlie_]

Hi, I was in a similar situation a year or two ago! Returning to wargaming after many years, my original experience being in Warhammer.

You'll find all sorts of methods of basing for historical wargaming. Generally it doesn't matter which approach you choose, and if you're used to the rigid GW systems you should find this relaxed approach refreshing!

It's worth considering what sort of game you want to play - not the specific rules so much, but the scale. Skirmish or massed battle? Or something in between?

For massed battle games, people usually prefer to have several figures per base. Either an entire unit on one large base, or three or four figures per base (so each unit will consist of say, 6 bases of figures). Though of course there is nothing wrong with individual square bases, warhammer style - as long as you have an appropriate selection of movement trays! Companies like Warbases will be your friend here.

For smaller skirmish gaming, individual bases are usually preferred - square or round (the latter seeming to be more popular). Though multi-basing can work fine too. The most popular medieval 'large skirmish' game is Lion Rampant - though individual bases are the norm here, the rules mean multi-basing works just as well.

Then there is the sabot base approach which has just been posted above me.

If you're defintiely going for mass battle and won't want your models to be used individually, multi-basing is generally the most appropriate and certainly has the potential to look the best. The actual layout of models on the bases doesn't matter, meaning you can get some really realistic looking units where the model's aren't organised in too-perfect ranks and files.
Many mass battle rulesets (the most popular for medievals including Hail Caesar, Sword & Spear and many others) require certain size unit bases, though they are generally relaxed about it. Do you have a regular opponent lined up, or someone who is starting this historical project with you? If so, seeing what size unit bases they are using might help you decide.
Having models 3 or 4 to a base on say, 40x40mm bases, is a good flexible approach in that it you can make units of various widths - 80mm wide, 120mm wide, 160mm wide, etc, to suit the rules you are using.
Some rulesets (I'm thinking of Hail Caesar) don't specify unit base sizes, just that they match up with your opponents.

However if you want to do both mass battles and skirmish, or aren't sure which you want yet, individual basing with sabots or movement trays might be the best solution.

The latter is what I do - in fact I do it warhammer style, on 20mm squares. This has the following advantages for me...
- I can play both large and small games (actually something in between the two is what I do).
- The models can be re-arranged for different sized units, which I am always doing.
- If I want to go back and repaint parts on certain models it is easy, as they aren't all attached to one base.
A disadvantage of this approach is that my models have to rank up neatly. If I'd gone for multi-basing, there would be much less headaches getting them to all rank up neatly.
It also could be argued that multi-basing looks better. However I think my approach looks just fine



Those are all on 20mm square plastic based from Renedra (2mm thick), on MDF movement trays from Warbases.

This approach makes my units quite compact, with the models close together. I really like this look personally, as I get lots of models into a small surface area. They look like nice dense formations, and it also has the bonus that I get as many models as possible onto a gaming table of limited size. Though as I said, it does mean I need to put a bit of thought into how they all rank up!
Often multi-based units have the models more spread out. Consider a unit of 30 men based my way. A unit using the multi-basing approach will often have either less men on the same surface area, or the same number of men on a larger surface area (and thus will take up more gaming space). As for me it's all about the aesthetic appeal of large formations of lots of men, my approach works well in this regard.

[Winston]

Firstly thanks both for the very helpful and prompt responses, really appreciate it!

I really like the idea of single bases in matching movement trays - I'm aiming for mass battles, but want flexibility. Also, while there's a local club I'm planning on joining, which has at least one WOTR enthusiast, I'm not sure what their set-up is yet and I'll likely only be gaming with them whenever I can squeeze it in (wife, two young kids etc etc) so for now I'm just building gradually and enjoying the painting while I find my feet. I'm not rushing, so happy with a little extra effort.

Also really good point about ease of re-painting - didn't think of this but as I'm a fiddler it's likely I'll want to go back, especially as I'm still getting my head back around the detail of it all.

Can either of you point me to some links where I can look at examples of what you've both shown here and buy a few?

[Winston]

PS, here's my first few efforts (tried to attach a pic). The most recent nearest the camera. Used a basic set of GW paints and a couple of washes. They're stood out how I was guessing - three per base - but obvs will be different now. Reasonably pleased with some bits or armour and clothing. But by god, I'd forgotten how tricky faces are.... work needed there.

[Charlie_]

Also, while there's a local club I'm planning on joining, which has at least one WOTR enthusiast, I'm not sure what their set-up is yet

Ah, that is the one definite advantage that playing GW games had... you could always find an opponent ; )
In the world of historicals, you often will struggle to find someone playing the same era / genre, using the same rules, with the same base sizes (if it matters). So you've often got to paint up two opposing forces all by yourself!!

Can either of you point me to some links where I can look at examples of what you've both shown here and buy a few?

Of bases and movement trays?

Renedra makes plastic bases. If you've got some Perry plastic boxes, those are the green ones provided. But of course they do pretty any size of round, square or rectangular you could think of. (I don't know what the strange sizes provided in the Perry WOTR boxes are supposed to be for...)
http://www.renedra.co.uk/productlist.php?category=1

Loads of companies do laser-cut MDF bases. My favourite is Warbases.
http://war-bases.co.uk/
They do all the usual square and round bases you would expect, as well as all sorts of other odd ones. They do pretty much any sort of movement tray or sabot base you could think of. For example here are their 'close order' trays I use....
http://war-bases.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=68_96&product_id=117
Just work out the size you want (so for a 30 man unit on 20mm bases, 10x3, I want a 60mmx200mm unit tray) and fill out the form. They are really affordable too - I have got LOADS of these in all sorts of sizes, so whatever formations I want to put my units in I have the right tray to hand (I might have gone a bit overboard though... Seriously I have a LOT of them...)
They will do the sabot bases Plynkes showed you as well, along with all sorts of things designed for specific games... and all sorts of tokens, counters, etc...
Even better, warbases will do custom items for you, just email Martin. He's made for me what I call 'archer spaced' unit trays.... So units of archers in two ranks will rank up easily, there is a 10mm gap between ranks. So the second rank doesn't have to be shooting the first rank in the back!

[Charlie_]

And they look great!!  
It's definitely worth giving it a lot of thought before you attach them to the bases. As I said in my above post, the Renedra bases provided in the Perry WOTR are peculiar sizes, so I wouldn't glue them down yet, using 40x40mm or 60x40mm or something would be much more sensible.
They look good the way you have them three to a base.

I will mention one other rulest - Swordpoint by Gripping Beast. It's a new one, haven't played it myself, but it looks pretty cool. Has some elements that will be familiar to you as a Warhammer player, but lots of things which are completely different.
Anyway, that uses 40x40mm bases I think, at least for close order infantry, with 4 models per base (though of course if you had 3 models, or varied it per base, the game would still function as normal!). If you liked the look of that ruleset, and based your units for it, they could easily be used for other games like Hail Caesar where it's up to you to choose your unit sizes, should at a later date you want to switch to a different ruleset.

[Winston]

Thanks Charlie for all your help and comments - those links are what I meant - just been having a look and I LOVE the fact Warbases have trays with 1p-sized slots!
I'd read about people using 1ps as bases - I do quite fancy that given how easy it is and they provide a weighty base for a plastic figure.
Very tempted by this actually. Although they will be very evenly spaced I guess there's nothing stopping me just buying a base without slots to stand them in if I feel like it, although the circles will mean they'll shuffle around more than if they were square. But what the hell. I like that option.

[levied troop]

(Not my picture, just did a quick LAF search and pinched somebody else's.  Thanks levied troop!)

You're welcome, it's what the forum's for 

And welcome to Winston, that's a great period to pick and that looks like a good start.

There's some more thoughts on basing here:
http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=101686.0
if you haven't already seen it.

If you settle on pennies for basing, check to see if they are magnetiseable (I'm sure that's a word) as it makes storage a lot easier.  I now use 25mm steel washers from Wilko's, very very much cheaper than buying them from almost any other retailer.

And I second the comments on Warbases, very helpful people.

[Winston]

Thanks Levied Troop - hadn't seen that link yet. We've got a box full of 1ps in the house so it seems like an omen. And I've just checked with a magnet - they work fine. I'll go with some magnetised 1p slot bases from Warbases. Thanks for all help everyone. I'll update with some pics when I've got my first 12 finished and based.

[Hu Rhu]

I like your starting line up.  If you haven't decided on a set of rules yet, i would recommend giving 'A Coat of Steel' by The Perfect Captain a look.  They are free on line and come with some excellent cards depicting the leading protagonists along with their background and coat of arms.

I'll admit that the rules are quite comprehensive but I have found they work really well.  What's more there is a campaign game that complements the rules called 'A Crown of Paper'.

Link here. http://perfectcaptain.50megs.com/request.html

[aphillathehun]

I second A Coat of Steel and A Crown of Paper.  Great stuff.

I have a general question about basing and rebasing plastic figs.  Over the years I've rebased a lot of lead stuff.  I wonder about the ability to rebase plastic figs.  Is it possible?  I haven't tried pulling old ones off the base but worry they won't be as robust as lead figs coming off old bases.

[Antonio J Carrasco]

Hi Winston

Do you use white or black basecoat? If you use white I would dare to suggest for the faces the same trick I use: paint a Base Flesh and then a wash with GW Reikland Flesh or similar. Once the wash dries, give the mini a light with the base tone et voilà! It is easy and fast. A friend of mine uses the wash directly over the white basecoat. It is even faster! And the results are good enough for the rank and file.

[Hu Rhu]

I have a general question about basing and rebasing plastic figs.  Over the years I've rebased a lot of lead stuff.  I wonder about the ability to rebase plastic figs.  Is it possible?  I haven't tried pulling old ones off the base but worry they won't be as robust as lead figs coming off old bases.

Depends on how they were fixed. Don't pull them, they will break.  Use a sharp knife and cut through any basing material and then slice under the base.  I have used this method frequently and only lose the odd figure (out of 100s).