Is Nobody Big Battling Anymore?

[jambo1]

Probably the wrong forum to post this on as LAF is more 28mm orientated. Plenty of people play 6mm, it's not dying out, a ridiculous theory! Some people like small scales, some people like bigger figures, there is no right and no wrong, it's playing with toy soldiers for goodness sake.

[jambo1]

I play 6mm and 3mm but wouldn't bother posting on here to be honest about micro wargaming, there are other forums and groups that are based around these scales that I follow for news and eye candy.

[fred]

The lack on non-28mm stuff can be only be for two reasons - either apathy or no one's playing with anything else.

But that's not the only reason.

There is a definite bias towards 28mm on LAF. Threads on 28mm figures get a lot more comments. There are lots of pictures of extreme close-ups of 28mm figures. There are probably more threads on building and painting 28mm figures than there are on playing games with them.

Yes smaller scale stuff does get posted - but generally it is less well received. Therefore as jambo says we post about smaller scale elsewhere, where the audience is more appreciative.

It takes time to photograph figures or games, and more time to write up forum posts - if the audience isn't much interested then people will spend that time posting elsewhere, or painting!

[fusilierdan]

Fred, Jambo1,

It sort of feeds on it's self doesn't it. You post here, don't get much reaction, post elsewhere and get a fair number of comments so continue posting elsewhere. Now here it seems nobody uses 6mm but elsewhere everybody does.

The group I'm in tends to play smaller games because of time constraints, set up and play need to be done in a 2-1/2 hour time frame. Larger games take more time which we only get once or twice a year.

My lead pile is big enough that unless some others in my group or someone comes along are enthusiastic and commited about doing 6mm I wouldn't start a new scale.

[jambo1]

fusilierdan, yes it does indeed work like that, I have never seen LAF as a forum for smaller scale stuff, you get the odd post on it but never over much, I don't come on here for 6mm news and pics so never feel the need to post anything about micro scales here. I come on here to look at the skill involved in painting minis which always astound me, I don't game much in the way of fantasy so this is also a reason for coming on LAF. It is a case of horses for courses and as Isaid earlier there is no right or wrong.

[SteveBurt]

LAF certainly comes across as a forum for larger scale (28mm plus) stuff used for skirmish-type gaming.
Nothing wrong with that, but that image is almost certainly why you don't get many photos of massed battles with small scale figures.

Some of us started out with mass battles and still play plenty of them - this new fangled skirmish stuff came much later!
I'm sure there is lots of big battle stuff going on, but people posting about it on here are in a minority.

[Elbows]

I'll be honest...it takes a lot of genius to make 6mm or something that scale interesting to look at.  Would I play it if someone hosted a game?  Absolutely.  I also agree that terrain is the thing which shines at that scale if done well.  I've clicked on plenty of 6-10mm scale threads on LAF, but I have nothing to say.  It's often just minimal terrain and microscopic figures I can't really see any detail on.

It's akin to seeing a post about a boardgame to me.  I've seen a few exceptions, but it's rare.  I just don't think 6mm generates interesting discussion outside of "where'd your get your figures" or "what rules did you use?".

I have seen some stunning 6-10mm board set-ups though, so that's always fun to look at!

[Plynkes]

LAF certainly comes across as a forum for larger scale (28mm plus) stuff used for skirmish-type gaming.

When Lead Adventure started it was never meant to be an all-encompassing gaming site. It was "stuff Alex is into." The emphasis was on the "adventure" part, so story-driven skirmish-gaming was to the fore. Back in those days the boards didn't even have many of the historical categories we have now, as the small LAF crowd wasn't doing those sorts of things.

As the forum has grown in membership it has expanded into other areas such as massive Napoleonic battles and such (because the expanded membership wanted it), and it has become more of a general figure gaming site. While that sort of thing is more than welcome, it wasn't LAF's main focus originally. That's why LAF is how it is, and if there might be a perception that it is a 28mm skirmish gaming site then it's because it is (or at least was).

[Belligerentparrot]

The point about terrain/the battlefield as a whole being the eye-catcher in 6mm is a great point - one of those moments where someone else articulates a thought that you yourself also think, but you never really realised that you did 

Sorry not to contribute more, but I didn't bother with the original rant. I've heard enough "scene BS" in punk and straightedge circles to last me a lifetime, don't need it in my miniatures hobby too.

[Silent Invader]

Regarding the impact of terrain, one only needs to look at the excellent works of LAF’s own 6mmPhil.

For example:

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=72814.msg1192869#msg1192869

[sukhe_bator]

I agree with the good Captain and Mosstrooper and others and I think it's largely a generational thing and dictated by various trends over the years. The explosion in 25mm gaming in recent years can largely be attributed to the rise of plastic multipart kits in an ever increasing variety of periods. I got back into 25mm when GW started producing reasonable priced sets of hard plastics (anyone remember those halcyon days of yore?) Before that, the cost of 25mm metals was already becoming more prohibitive for entry level gamers. Those who did invariably went for skirmish level games requiring fewer figures.
I first discovered the delights of 15mm when I went to Uni. I hadn't really encountered them before. I also saw 6mm for the first time, but the visual appeal was lacking for me. 15mm was more practical to lug around and paint up quicker, but the appreal of mass battles from my old Airfix days was well ingrained. For games requiring 'big scenery' I still favour 15mm, but the dearth of variety in more esoteric periods at the time put me off them for many years.
I got back into 15mm seriously when I decided to use 15mm WW1 and RCW to recreate Back of Beyond so I could go to town on scratchbuilding appropriate scenery, which is where I felt the otherwise excellent BOB figure ranges fell down.
Now that 25mm gaming has been revitalised, there are more metal makers out there tapping into the market with more niche items to add to the mix. Now I'm more settled I can indulge in larger numbers of 25mm with impunity and build upon my collections to indulge in larger scale battles.
It is broadly similar to the development of the Model Railway hobby, with 00 reigning supreme for many years, then along came N gauge, and finally Z gauge. Now pretty much everything you want
is available commercially and you don't have to be a super carpenter/electrician/modelmaker/set designer to achieve reasonable results.
I can see the appeal in 6mm, just as I can admire the intricacy of N or Z gauge, but my modelling gene dictates that I concentrate on 25mm or 15mm. 6mm is excellent to recreate the real sense of masses of troops and for the Kriegspiel-esque aspects of strategy and tactics. However it remains largely out of reach of old timers like myself who see our eyesight failing and the mountain of unfinished projects growing..

[black hat miniatures]

"6mm wargames figure manufacturer in diatribe concerning how few people are buying 6mm wargames figures shock!"  


My guess? The bottom is gradually dropping out of the 6mm market - as I say, always something of a niche interest anyway - and the chap that owns Baccus is simply raging at the dying of the light...
I guess I'd feel the same if it was my business. But it may just be down to demographics...

Actually, I know from talking to Pete that Baccus are so busy they are struggling to cope with business (such as not being able to supply a USA distributor) - Pete's business is very healthy....

I think it is more a feeling, if you read the article and subsequent comments, that the magazines are drifting into their own niche of 28mm skirmish based wargaming and ceasing to cover big battle wargaming...

I don't have any opinions on this as I hardly read the magazines and mostly collect new armies in 54mm nowadays so I'm drifting into another niche... :-)

Mike

[sukhe_bator]

I haven't committed to a Mag for a year or so now. My interests are pretty niche so I've put it down to a dearth of material I like rather than anything else, but there do seem to be on the face of it a lot more skirmishy games featured - they seem to be more photogenic as well which would appeal more to an eye-candy orientated glossy publication...
It could be that the very logistics and scale of staging large scale battles demanding large surfaces generally devoid of scenery actually counts against them... Who has the space to stage such games except at conventions, club nights or in well appointed hobby rooms.
My Ratio of modelling/painting:gaming is probably 99:1. At best I can rustle up a 6' x 4' space for perhaps 1 day a year, but it takes me a couple of hours rummaging around all over the house and loft to find all the bits to stage a game.

[MartinR]

I haven't bought a glossy Wargames magazine for years as they don't represent the sorts of things our gaming group or club do. As other people have pointed out, magazines can only publish the material they are sent, and tbh the Internet is a far richer space for inspiration these days, particularly the blogsphere.

Wargaming has always been a broad church, and I really don't care if some branches get more "publicity" than others. There are a few people at the club who do 28mm Skirmish, but by and large we do everything from 2mm to 54mm, little battles, big battles, land, sea, air and on a few glorious occasions, all three at once.

[Captain Blood]

Actually, I know from talking to Pete that Baccus are so busy they are struggling to cope with business (such as not being able to supply a USA distributor) - Pete's business is very healthy....

I think it is more a feeling, if you read the article and subsequent comments, that the magazines are drifting into their own niche of 28mm skirmish based wargaming and ceasing to cover big battle wargaming...

I don't have any opinions on this as I hardly read the magazines and mostly collect new armies in 54mm nowadays so I'm drifting into another niche... :-)

Mike

Well that's good news. Thanks Mike. I'm glad things are going well for him.

I haven't bought a wargames magazine for years either.  Given the ubiquity and advantages of the internet, I'm kind of amazed anyone still does to be honest.
But I don't think wargames magazines set the trends or the agenda. I think they just reflect what they see going on in the hobby they're part of. So don't really think the magazines can or should be 'blamed' for a lack of coverage of 6mm.
The reality is, popular or not, there are only a handful of wargames businesses making 6mm stuff - and hundreds making 28mm...
Presumably the proportions of people playing those scales is broadly equivalent. Because let's face it, if 6mm was that popular, presumably there would be dozens of manufacturers in that scale. But there aren't.
So I think the market, the magazines, the wagaming websites and forums are all just reflecting what wargamers are actually playing and modelling. I think they are mirroring interests in the market, not driving it. That's what's in their commercial interests.

If one is a huge fan of 6mm, I can see how this would be disappointing, but it seems to me it's not some kind of prejudice against the micro scales - it's just reflecting the reality?