Wargames Show Standards

[flags_of_war]

Of late I have been having a number of discussions with fellow gamers about the standards of games on a display at Wargames shows. Especially the shows we have had this year in Scotland. The general consensus was that we continue to be disappointed in the standard of games on display and I was wondering the thoughts of others on this subject.

Are the majority of the games standards poor or are my expectations just far too high?

When you visit miniature or railway model shows, you get to see the best on display. Guys who seems to strive to always improve their game and show off at their events. Like a peacock showing their feathers if you will. I’ve been part of clubs who want to put games on and all they want to do is make do with what they have and throw anything on a table. I don’t want to see hex tiles, green felt, 10mm armies, or any old crap you have in your cupboard at a show. I want to see the crème de la crème of my hobby. I want to see something that excites me, makes think “this is different”, something that makes we want to improve on my standards and take inspiration.

At most shows in Scotland, I put a game on and I think I always try to improve on what I have done in the past. When I get a spare 10 mins from my games, I normal go around the show to see what else is on display and can genuinely count on one had the number of games that take an interest. No matter the subject, if it looks good it will get my attention just for the effort that goes into it. Thankfully when you display a game you do not need to pay to get in, as I think I’d be disappointed if I had. This can be said when I visited Salute last year. Don’t get me wrong there some stunning games on display but I walked past far too many of them as they looked no better than what I can see at a club night. 

This not an attack on the hobby standards of guys playing games at their local clubs. I will game with anything at my clubs if I enjoy gaming with the person. It’s to do solely with the standards at shows which IMO should be the best.

Iain

[Eric the Shed]

Hi Iain

I think you are right that demo standards have slipped over the last few years however we should be grateful that there are still folks prepared to do this - it clearly takes a great deal of effort (and risk) to put on a great display for what I understand is very little reward.

Perhaps the organisers/traders should 'pay/reward' for displays / demo games or at the very least vet those who plan to come along.

Personally the thought of taking all my shiny stuff to a show would fill me with dread.

EtS
 

[N.C.S.E]

I am strongly against dissing hexes. Done well (i.e. not by me!) they look fantastic.



[not anything of mine, but I'm in awe of this guy's setup]

Other than that, I haven't been to enough shows to comment. I would think the standards would be particular to the region, the culture of the gaming groups and how easy it is to drive there!

[Gibby]

I don’t want to see hex tiles, green felt, 10mm armies, or any old crap you have in your cupboard at a show. I want to see the crème de la crème of my hobby. I want to see something that excites me, makes think “this is different”, something that makes we want to improve on my standards and take inspiration.

You lost me here. It's quite sweeping to suggest an entire scale cannot be made to look great to even the most high of show standards. At Partizan this year there was a game near the Kallistra stand which was a huge 10mm Pellenor Fields display, which not only used 10mm figures but also Hex tiles! They were flocked, grassed etc though so also looked fantastic. It showed what can be done to make Kallistra's hex-based game rules/terrain system look fantastic. I wish I could find the pics I took of it. A show is surely all about displaying games of all types and scales and really showing how awesome they can look.

[flags_of_war]

Hi Iain

I think you are right that demo standards have slipped over the last few years however we should be grateful that there are still folks prepared to do this - it clearly takes a great deal of effort (and risk) to put on a great display for what I understand is very little reward.

Perhaps the organisers/traders should 'pay/reward' for displays / demo games or at the very least vet those who plan to come along.

Personally the thought of taking all my shiny stuff to a show would fill me with dread.

EtS
 

Eric,

Yeah I do apprciate that and would hate to not have shows but it might be the case this might be driver to no shows as well. Shows seem to be moving more towards being a reatil events rather game displays. I've won awards at shows up here and some give you a voucher to spend at the stalls or a load of books.

Is it the York show that requires you to tell them what your game is and the "quality" of it before they agree for you to display it?

[flags_of_war]

I guess it's all personal choice and that's what I'm asking about. These are opinions i have shared with a few in my hobby circle recently. Personally I wouldn't give a table with hex tiles 2nd glance at a show but i would happyily play on it at a club night.

[Elbows]

The only events I attend are small conventions nearby, say 300-400 people at most over the course of a weekend (here in the states we do the full weekend, where it seems some UK expos are more one-day affairs?).

I'd say at each event there are perhaps 2-4 tables really worthy of the price of admission.  Sadly these are often the same guys at both conventions, and often a repeat from a previous year (with some minor changes).  I haven't been in some time or I'd have up to date pictures to show.

I do think the level of table is far less pronounced in the US since it's rare that we have game clubs (i.e. a group dedicated to running a game).  It's almost always a single person with their vast collection putting on a game once or twice a year for fun.

Even the bigger conventions I've been to have only a handful of stellar looking games.  Many more fall into the "very nice tabletop game" look (I think my tables are in this zone), and then perhaps a third are wholly uninspiring (to the point of unpainted models, unpainted scenery, chipped and damaged terrain and foam, etc.).  While this won't have any impact on the fun people may have playing in the bottom tier looking games --- personally, if I was running the convention I'd remove those, as it damages the "product" you're trying to sell.

The sad part with the smaller US conventions is that they often have to beg and plead for nice games to be shown/presented.  I've been invited to numerous conventions whilst hosting my Shoot N' Skedaddle games, because people who run conventions want to put on some spectacle and have good looking games to ensure people return the next year.  Some conventions I've been to have been dire due to extreme weather, or conflicting schedules.

If I attend a convention I've not registered to host a game at, I will genuinely bring my entire set-up in the car...and if the convention is weak with a lot of open table space, I'll volunteer to just set up immediately - put my game on a marker board placard in the hall, etc.

I admit, I'm just proud enough that I'd rather not present an underwhelming game at a convention.  Admittedly my games have gone from somewhat-crappy to much better over time.

[Emir of Askaristan]

Iain,

Interesting and thought-provoking post !

Although I haven't been to any shows this year anywhere, (my fault due to work and other commitments, not theirs) I think there is two sides to the "display game" story. You make some interesting points in your post, which I don't entirely disagree with. I've seen poor games with wall to wall figures which don't impress, threadbare cloths or scabby tiles, or damaged scenery and stuff which has generally seen better days, and these are a turn off to me too. But Ive seen some dull model railway layouts too!

At shows in the past I have specifically been asked to put on a display GAME - which must be run as a game and have movement of troops, dice throws etc. When asked by the organisers to do this I have strived to do just that, run a wargame at the show, perhaps not a million miles from what would be done on a club night, with a little extra care and attention. What I have noticed is that prizes are handed out to some which are more DISPLAY games. Almost static troops, few rolling dice and little evidence of gaming going on. These look brilliant and eye catching, but often when you return nothing much has happened at all, so are more diorama than game.

I'd also point out that some clubs like to be present at their nearest show's just to publicise their existence. Arguably this is less important now because of the internet, blogs, etc. but its good to meet in person and see what a club does if you're in the area it covers.

So there is a balance to be struck - you are correct that any demonstration should be the best a club can manage, but bear in mind some are small and may not have the skill set or the numbers (or perhaps the money?) to make or field stand out terrain or figures. Should those be excluded? The smaller shows possibly couldn't survive if they turned away clubs like that. The larger shows would however.

I think its up to the hosts to inform those intending to put on a game what the standard expected of them is, and ask for details, not just what size, scale and period the game will be. Perhaps even ask for a picture of the planned game or one done previously. All that vetting is doable now, and may drive up quality by getting people to up their game but it may drive out numbers. I think there is room for everyone. You've said it yourself, if you don't like, don't stop by.

[Dags]

Perhaps the organisers/traders should 'pay/reward' for displays / demo
 

Oh yeah, traders are made of money  

Apologies if that comes across as a bit sarky but the reality is that show costs are going up and up and takings aren't keeping pace.

Back to Iain's topic, I do 25+ shows a year and there are very few games that seriously have the 'wow' factor that I just want to stand and drool over.

That isn't, necessarily, a bad thing; if the game itself is good and well umped, inspiring those playing and watching the visual appearance is less important.

There have been exceptions; the standard at Partizan and Crisis is always high (but also they are normally very busy and I get little chance to really gawp in awe)

Personally, I can think of nothing worse after a 4 hour drive and setting up than to find a long table filled with hundreds of dusty 30yo badly painted minis, minimal equally tatty terrain on a plain green cloth set up in front of us. It's always an N word game too and they never seem to move all day  

[Elbows]

Ah, you mean the games on gigantic tables (which no one can reach the center of) with beautiful massed models of 3mm-6mm scale...which are, in the morning, surrounded by excited 50+ year old players.  Come 3-4 in the afternoon it's the same lot, sitting, lazily watching, all models having moved about 8" on the table top.  That kind of game?

[Sunjester]

Doesn't it also depend on the purpose of the game? Are they just there for the "cream" of the hobby to show off their skills (or in some cases how much they can afford to pay) or are they there to showcase the hobby as a whole. And just because they have a jaw-dropping display does not automatically mean that they are any better at engaging with passers by.

Personally I think an interesting and fun participation game is perfectly acceptable with OK level terrain/figures. 

Our club regular attend our more local shows to promote the club and, hopefully, attract new members. We put on the best demos we can (not "tatty terrain on a plain green cloth"), but they are certainly not of the amazing standards I have seen from some other demonstrators. But them our club night games do not look like that either and we are promoting the club, so our demos tend to look like the better quality club games.

[Gibby]

Doesn't it also depend on the purpose of the game? Are they just there for the "cream" of the hobby to show off their skills (or in some cases how much they can afford to pay) or are they there to showcase the hobby as a whole. And just because they have a jaw-dropping display does not automatically mean that they are any better at engaging with passers by.

Or that the game they're playing is even fun.

[Norm]

I game on hexes and use 10mm, so if I saw that at show I would be made up and it is likely to inspire me to spend and make a trader happy.

Surely one of the greatest challenges that our shows face at the moment is that they are simply losing their diversity as 28mm and re-sellers become king of the shows.

if you do 6mm, 10mm and 15mm, there is already enough cause for you to think twice about doing a 200 mile round trip to go to a show that does not reflect your interest - showing bias and killing off the small scale demo tables just feeds into that problem.

A lot of people are not part of clubs and are gaming in spaces that would best be described as 'kitchen table' gaming. We need more shows to show off smaller games, so that there is a more honest reflection of how many of us are gaming. I have the black Powder rules, but sadly will NEVER have access to a 12' x 6' table or the huge armies needed to fill it.

Shows need a balance, a range of games that covers the grand spectacle, right through to the 2' x 2' game board. They should also reflect the gaming community that are visiting, so some tables will be richly serviced and others much more humble and budget conscious and some will have hexes!

All of that aside, I have never felt that demo games at shows are dropping in standards. They in the main seem well run, well researched and have friendly gamers who are willing to engage. I like seeing a lot of different stuff (scales, periods etc) and don't take for granted the fact that most demo gamers have worked hard to get their game to a show.

The only thing I don't want to see at a show is a creased game cloth, it happens, but it is rare.

 

[Dags]

Apologies if anyone was concerned or worried when I referred to N-word games earlier. The 'N' concerned is for Napoleonics

Apologies, again

[Sunjester]

A lot of people are not part of clubs and are gaming in spaces that would best be described as 'kitchen table' gaming. We need more shows to show off smaller games, so that there is a more honest reflection of how many of us are gaming. I have the black Powder rules, but sadly will NEVER have access to a 12' x 6' table or the huge armies needed to fill it.

That's why I play Black Powder in 10mm! 

I also belong to a club but would seldom have the space in our hall  for a 12 x 6 table (unless I really wanted to piss people off).