Sellswords and Spellslingers from Ganesha (first game)

[midismirnoff]

It's more like Rogue Stars than SoBH, in that there are no characteristics (apart from hit points), and traits are simply modifiers. So, a PC might be something like "HP: 3, Archery: +2, Sword: +1, Armour: +1, Charisma: +2".

Well, I wish Rogue Stars was like that. The PCs have just a lot of descriptive traits, which is making book keeping hard and barely manageable, as I experienced. What you describe makes much much much more sense! Thank you!

Alessandro

[midismirnoff]

Guys, we've been playing s&s lately, under your advice, and it was a total blast. Little to no book keeping, fast action, balanced missions: good old skool fantasy with a modern engine. Our party has got some new ability and gear, and is looking forward to step into future missions!

[Hobgoblin]

Guys, we've been playing s&s lately, under your advice, and it was a total blast. Little to no book keeping, fast action, balanced missions: good old skool fantasy with a modern engine. Our party has got some new ability and gear, and is looking forward to step into future missions!

Glad to hear that it's going well! It really is one of those "learn the game and leave the rulebook behind" games (though surviving adventurers go back to the book to upgrade themselves).

One thing I really like about it is how quickly the table can fill up with monsters. I'm planning a "megadungeon" as a setting for various games (RPGs and wargames), and I think this aspect will be great with S&S. So, rather than "kill the monsters and take their stuff", goals will be things like "pass through the Great Hall to reach the Sunken Chapel and retrieve the Sceptre of Absolution" - with avoiding monsters as much of a goal as killing them. I'm very much reminded of Moria, and how the Fellowship want to get through it without attracting the attention of its orcish inhabitants ...

[midismirnoff]

I was planning a dungeon setting too. Do you think major tweaks would be need ed to use s&s in that setting?

[Hobgoblin]

I think you could get away with the rules as written if you just laid out the dungeon, marked "spawning points" and gave the players appropriate goals.

I am planning a few tweaks, though, the main one being some sort of system to allow for exploration without cards. I'll GM the game and only lay the room tiles down as the players enter the rooms. Starting monsters will be preplanned and will trigger the use of cards, but before that, I'd probably use a non-combat mode where there's only a certain chance (1 in 6?) of wandering monsters - which would then trigger the drawing of cards - so that when you get one wandering monster, you're likely to get more ...

I'd also do what we've often done for SoBH games and pre-determine groups of wandering monsters. So, one level might have a table like this:
 
1. goblin warriors (1D6)
2. goblin archers (1D6)
3. orc warriors (1D6)
4. orc archers (1D6)
5. orc brute
6. troll

I'd (secretly) lay out batches of miniatures for each number, in sixes where appropriate. So there might be 12 or 18 or 24 goblin warriors. I'd have 1D6 arrive, and then use any reinforcements/they're behind you/wandering monster cards from the same group of six until that six is used up. So, if a player's action causes four goblins to arrive, a subsequent wandering-monster card will lead to one or two of the remaining members of that patrol arriving (stragglers!). A wandering monster drawn after that would be re-rolled.

[DivisMal]

I think you could get away with the rules as written if you just laid out the dungeon, marked "spawning points" and gave the players appropriate goals.

I am planning a few tweaks, though, the main one being some sort of system to allow for exploration without cards. I'll GM the game and only lay the room tiles down as the players enter the rooms. Starting monsters will be preplanned and will trigger the use of cards, but before that, I'd probably use a non-combat mode where there's only a certain chance (1 in 6?) of wandering monsters - which would then trigger the drawing of cards - so that when you get one wandering monster, you're likely to get more ...

I'd also do what we've often done for SoBH games and pre-determine groups of wandering monsters. So, one level might have a table like this:
 
1. goblin warriors (1D6)
2. goblin archers (1D6)
3. orc warriors (1D6)
4. orc archers (1D6)
5. orc brute
6. troll

I'd (secretly) lay out batches of miniatures for each number, in sixes where appropriate. So there might be 12 or 18 or 24 goblin warriors. I'd have 1D6 arrive, and then use any reinforcements/they're behind you/wandering monster cards from the same group of six until that six is used up. So, if a player's action causes four goblins to arrive, a subsequent wandering-monster card will lead to one or two of the remaining members of that patrol arriving (stragglers!). A wandering monster drawn after that would be re-rolled.

That’s a pretty good idea. I still haven’t managed to check S&S, but recently rediscovered  my love for Ganesha games with the Simian X-Expansion for Mutants & Deathrayguns.

Have you been successful in integrating SoBH for combats, btw?

[Hobgoblin]

That’s a pretty good idea. I still haven’t managed to check S&S, but recently rediscovered  my love for Ganesha games with the Simian X-Expansion for Mutants & Deathrayguns.

I think there are two areas where Ganesha's games are pretty much unbeatable: "time to table" (decide to have game; grab miniatures and scenery; start playing); and "no need for the rulebook". Those are two huge strengths, I reckon.

Have you been successful in integrating SoBH for combats, btw?

I haven't bothered so far, as the speed and simplicity of the S&S games is great. But I can think of two ways in which it could be done.

First, you could give each activating monster one action, but also give them all the Dashing trait (ASOBH-style: so that they get a free attack if they move into combat). You could also allow shooters the equivalent (i.e move and shoot). Horde shooters would automatically do concentrated fire, while horde minions would make a single attack with outnumbering bonuses. You could extend this further so that loners get two actions (plus dashing) and leaders three, but that would make them more dangerous as they'd move a lot faster. All SoBH traits could be applied as normal.

Second, you could just roll for activations for each group or individual - always rolling three dice and carrying out actions as normal. In that case, I'd drop the automatic dashing, as you'd get a lot of double and triple activations. There would be a logical hierarchy of actions: monsters with three activations and proximity to charge would do power blows; archers in range would do aimed shots where possible. That would work fine, but it would obviously take a bit longer, what with all the dice rolling.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Having played only three games of this, it is still too early to make any definitive statements.  I haven't felt the need to tinker with any of the mechanics yet (which is unusual for me).  As Hobgoblin has indicated, the rules make for quick, simple play.  Monsters might only get one activation at a time, but may activate multiple times during a players turn; each character will potentially fail one or more activation rolls leading to a monster card being drawn - either a new monster appears, or one or more monsters are activated.
I think the feeling of a game could be altered by having more powerful monsters, fewer cards spawning new monsters but increasing monster activation cards.
What monsters do, once activated can also be modified by scenario specific rules.

Hobgoblin, I have been playing that the activated monsters get an attack if they move into contact with a PC - I will have to go and read the rules again to check this, but I think I will continue to play this way even if I have it wrong.

Edit:
I found this on page 22 under point 3 on monster activation:
 "If the foe comes into base-tobase contact with a PC, it immediately attacks that PC and a melee is fought"

[Hobgoblin]

Hobgoblin, I have been playing that the activated monsters get an attack if they move into contact with a PC - I will have to go and read the rules again to check this, but I think I will continue to play this way even if I have it wrong.

Edit:
I found this on page 22 under point 3 on monster activation:
 "If the foe comes into base-tobase contact with a PC, it immediately attacks that PC and a melee is fought"

Yes, that's right - I was talking about replicating that with (A)SoBH mechanics - hence the thought about the Dashing trait.

[Elbows]

All of this sounds compelling, but what do we think about long-term potential for a developing campaign?  Particularly if you did adjust it for a dungeon crawl?

[Hobgoblin]

Pretty good, I'd say - first and foremost because there's huge potential for character development. It would take many, many games to get a starting character "tooled up" to the max - and I bet there'll be supplements with more options out before that happens. It helps that there are no character classes - so that you lizardman archer can dabble in sorcery if he sees fit, after mastering the less esoteric combat arts. And then he might want to work on his social skills ....

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Likewise, I think this is a perfect rule set for campaigns.  It is relatively easy to add new traits if you need them and creating new monsters is also easy - I have done this to make more "Tolkienish" monsters.  I have used some of the rules from the unique monsters in some of the scenarios to help build stats for some of my monsters - spiders, wargs, Cold drakes.
So far the scenarios are a little boring, but I would expect we will see more come out.  I think scenarios from other rules sets would be easy to adapt.
As a perennial rules tinkerer I have found nothing in the main rules that I would alter.  For a more Tolkien feel some of the traits need altering and I think some change to the Stealth trait needs modifying to allow for more sneaking around rather than a straight slash and hack game.

[Loop]

Likewise, I think this is a perfect rule set for campaigns.  It is relatively easy to add new traits if you need them and creating new monsters is also easy - I have done this to make more "Tolkienish" monsters.  I have used some of the rules from the unique monsters in some of the scenarios to help build stats for some of my monsters - spiders, wargs, Cold drakes.

Would you mind sharing how you went about this please? I’ve only taken a cursory glance at the rules so far but I was hoping that tweaking the monster cards would be easy?

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Loop, it is all low technology, I'm afraid.  For now I just hand write the monster card following the same format as the official cards.  Once I am happy with how the new monsters play I will probably just use Excel with a picture inserted.

[Loop]

I wasn’t expecting anything flashy, I just wondered what stats you’d used for which monsters?