Author Topic: Beginning of Perry Burgundian Army (Read 6537 times)

Charlemagne · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2018, 03:18:03 PM »

Quote from: jazbo on February 07, 2018, 05:27:38 PM

Am I missing something, I can't see a photo?

As Metternich kindly suggested the only photos thus far (apart from my wet palette) are the front/back pictures of my first 3 miniatures in the initial posting. I have been rather busy with readings of late so I haven't made as much progress as I would have liked, but I should have at least something to show tonight!

Also, as a brief query (to no-one in particular), I am working on a test figure for how I will be painting brigandines and have found that I am not sure exactly how I want to treat it. I've tried a burgundy color base (equivalent of army painter scab red I believe) with a rather heavy application of black ink over which I will go back and do a first highlight with the scab red equivalent with some highlighting in a brighter red (equivalent of pure red). If someone has another good way/a better way to paint brigandines I would very much like to hear it.

Charlie_ · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2018, 06:22:56 PM »

Quote from: Charlemagne on February 08, 2018, 03:18:03 PM

Also, as a brief query (to no-one in particular), I am working on a test figure for how I will be painting brigandines and have found that I am not sure exactly how I want to treat it. I've tried a burgundy color base (equivalent of army painter scab red I believe) with a rather heavy application of black ink over which I will go back and do a first highlight with the scab red equivalent with some highlighting in a brighter red (equivalent of pure red). If someone has another good way/a better way to paint brigandines I would very much like to hear it.

I paint the brigandines in a simllar war - bright base coat followed by a dark wash. I don't re-highlight.
I used to use black ink, but have lately converted to Army Painter Dark Tone WASH (note - I'm NOT talking about their dip, but their droper bottles of washes, which share the same names as the dips but are something different). Just one or two coats of that does the trick. I make sure the original colour is also very bright though, so the end result isn't too dark. I either do them blue or red.
Also, I sin in that I don't bother painting the rivets! Perhaps one day I will go back and paint every last brigandine rivet in my army... but perhaps not.
Here's some pics of my models you can see my brigandines on.... (I'll link to them not post the actual pics so your thread isn't cluttered up with other peoples' models!)

Charlemagne · « **Reply #17 on:** February 08, 2018, 07:53:47 PM »

Quote from: Charlie_ on February 08, 2018, 06:22:56 PM

Oh thank you very much! Very nice indeed! For painting large groups especially that is a far more streamlined system so I'll have to at least consider it depending on how much time it takes me to finish up this gentleman aha.

Metternich · « **Reply #18 on:** February 08, 2018, 09:47:06 PM »

There would be a difference between the more expensive brigandines worn by Burgundian nobles and gendarmes vice those worn by ordinary troops. The wealthier individuals wore brigandines faced with rich fabrics, such as richly dyed velvet, and the rivets were often gilded/gilt, lateen or silvered. Ordinary troops just used the underlying canvas or leather, or at most had it faced in a cheaper cloth.

wrgmr1 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 08, 2018, 11:03:25 PM »

Interesting, my Front Rank figures do not have a many in brigandines, so I just painted the rivets.
You may want to try a dry brush of silver over the brigandine, then washes of red or blue.
Just a thought.

Metternich · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2018, 03:26:26 AM »

Breazer · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2018, 12:11:11 PM »

This is looking like a great start. Curious to see more!

wrgmr1 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2018, 06:24:53 PM »

Metternich - Thanks for posting these!

Some of the images have small red or white crosses on their shoulder or leg. I wonder if this is correct, or artist license? I actually did paint a few on my figures, but still question it. What are your thoughts?

Cheers,
Thomas

Charlemagne · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2018, 09:06:47 PM »

Quote from: Metternich on February 09, 2018, 03:26:26 AM

Thank you so much for this reference material! I'll definitely be making use of these. I guess long story short, they did use voulge and bill equivalents although with far less frequency than English armies.

Corso · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2018, 06:22:30 AM »

Nice burgundians - keep posting your progress!

Metternich · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2018, 01:30:22 PM »

From my readings and pictures I've seen, some Burgundians used bill/voulge/pollaxe (glaive ? or is that more of a French weapon at this time ?). Dismounted bodyguards seemed to use bills and voulges (probably matching weapons in the same unit - so two guardsmen from same unit would have same kind of weapon); dismounted coustillers would use either, ox-tongues, two-handed swords, or spears; and dismounted gendarmes (in common with most western European heavy cavalry of the late 15th century) probably used pollaxes. Italian infantry in Burgundian service could use any of the vast array of 15th century polearms. That said, I'm sure there were exceptions to these "rules !"

Charlie_ · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2018, 02:07:49 PM »

I doubt there were any 'rules' at all. I think heavy infantry of any nationality would simply all have been armed with a variety of polearms - bills, glaives, halberds, poleaxes, voulges, fauchards, etc etc...

Though it's true that some nationalities would have favoured one particular type - most notable the Swiss with their halberds and voulges. The English APPARENTLY favoured the bill (but then again, perhaps the term 'bill' just meant 'polearm' in England?). I've heard it said that the French favoured glaives, but have no idea if there is any solid evidence of this (and again it could be that glaive = polearm). I think Burgundian troops especially, being drawn from a variety of European locations, could happily be seen with an array of all sorts of polearm.

Though it's worth making a distinction between poleaxes (which covers two-handed warhammers, 'bec de corbin', 'lucerne hammers' etc) and other 'lesser' polearms... The former are better suited for armoured combat and are more sophisticated (ie expensive) constructions, so would be more likely to be wielded by wealthy individuals (armoured men-at-arms), whereas the latter are simpler (cheaper) constructions, with a longer reach better for keeping the enemy at a distance (so would be more popular with unarmoured men).

WuZhuiQiu · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2018, 03:23:44 PM »

Charlemagne, nice work! That you mention particular heraldry implies that you have access to some potentially useful sources on the Burgundian army. Are there any books or websites that you would recommend?

Metternich · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2018, 06:24:17 PM »

Charlie, in the earlier Burgundian campaigns it would be quite correct to surmise that Burgundian infantry (originally feudal in origin) would by-and-large be equipped with whatever polearms they could obtain (and many of our names for the various configurations of polearm are probably Renaissance or even Victorian era inventions). However, in his military ordinances to modernize and professionalize Burgundian military forces through the establishment of Compagnies d’Ordonnance (1471, 1472, 1473), Charles the Bold mandated that each Lance was to include a pikeman (the pikemen of all the lances of a Compagnie being brigaded together into a unit of perhaps 900).

Metternich · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2018, 07:25:42 PM »

Readers may find the attached website link of interest. It is for the Companye of St. George, "a living-history association. For twenty-five years we have been bringing to life a small artillery company dating back to the period of Charles the Bold (1467-1477)."

http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms/?q=en/The_Company

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