Sellswords and Spellcasters in Mordheim

[housecaldwell]

I recently tried out Sellswords and Spellcasters from Ganesha Games using the setting from Mordheim - a city destroyed by a comet centuries ago that is newly opened to exploration.  My players were: an 11 year old boy who wanted to play "that game from _Stranger Things_ (ie, Dungeons and Dragons)", his mom with little gaming experience, my 14 yo daughter with some gaming experience but not really a gaming enthusiast and my wife and I.

It went splendidly and everyone had a great time and wants to play again!

My wife and I did a moderate amount of prep work by just asking what kinds of fantasy characters they might like and then showing them a few of my painted models.  I then took that and created the characters.  I tried to also include an option for each one.  For instance, for the mom's character I offered the choice of taking the "Impulsive" disadvantage along with the "Fast" advantage.

Characters were:
Me: A con-artist witch hunter with the Leader, Cleric and Heavy Drinker traits (scarred by all the terrors he has seen in Mordheim)
Wife: A dual-sword wielding fighter with Whirlwind of Steel
Daughter: A thief type with the Greedy disadvantage
Boy: A wizard
Mom: Essentially a Ranger type with Archery, Impulsive, Fast, Forester
(Also 2 three year olds, one from each family, who entertained and interrupted constantly as we played)

Since we had 5 players, I built each type on 30 points each and each player only had one character.  This seemed to work pretty well.  It's not really possible to build a good Wizard with only 30 points so I fudged it a little and gave him two spells: Teleport Other and Magic Dart.  I chose Teleport Other specifically to get him into the idea that this is cooperative and and encourage him to think about how to help everyone else.

First game was the Wine in the Brambles scenario -- it was easy to substitute a ruined building for a bramble patch.  We started off really rough as several of us failed 2 or 3 activations in a row.  This kind of spooked us and we started rolling only 1 or 2 dice, but that didn't help much either. Basically, we just had bad luck with reinforcements and ambushes popping off around us.  We didn't manage to get further than 12" into the battlefield, but we still managed to find 2 jugs of wine and get everyone off the board for a technical win.

Then it was a break for King Cake (it's Mardi gras, y'all!) and we went back for a second scenario to try again.  Everyone upgraded their characters (just adding 1 point to either Ranged or Melee was pretty quick) -- that might have been a violation of the campaign rules, but  wanted to keep the game going without bogging down in the campaign. 

This time I chose the first scenario from the rulebook (the run through the wasteland) -- the story was that we had fled the city proper but still had to get through the ruins to find the merchant (so that I didn't have to set up all new terrain).  And I ruled that there could be casks of wine here, too, so if we searched the houses we might find some.  This game went MUCH better and we racked up quite a kill count. Nearly everyone was trying for 3 activations per turn and for the most part we were getting 2 activations and an event instead of the other way around like we got in the first game. We even had a great plan -- we would open a path and the wizard would run up the battlefield, then teleport us all up to him and we would start again.  It was a great plan until the wizard rolled a 1 and couldn't cast the spell!

Highlights of the second game were the Ranger using her healing skill to keep everyone healthy as we fought off hordes of goblins, the fighter with Whirlwind of Steel cutting her way through 9 goblins and 3 Orks over the course of the game, and the thief looting every dead goblin in sight.  Oh, and right at the end we managed to surround and kill the troll with archery and crossbow shots without ever having to face it in melee combat!

Everyone is excited to do the campaign turn and go shopping the next time!  It's a great little game.  I love how the characters are the only ones to roll dice and the risk-reward system of the activation and how it interacts with the event deck is just genius. 

BTW, while I have several other Ganesha Games products, I haven't really played them.  This one is different.  It's elegant.  I'll be playing this one a lot.  And I knew I had a winner when, the night before, I set up a simple solo game and had so much fun that I couldn't wait to play with my friends the next day.

PS -- I would buy a science-fiction version of this in an instant!  This is the game I wanted Rogue Stars to be.

Some house rules we implemented:
I discarded arbalast and made the crossbow deal 2 damage.  Otherwise I can't see any reason to take a crossbow instead of a bow, and besides crossbows LOOK like they should do more damage.  That's my justification and I'm sticking to it. :-)

My daughter's thief character is holding a little hand-crossbow thing -- totally not a realistic weapon.  I gave it a 12" range, 1 damage and does NOT take a turn to reload.  And I told her that being a thief she can coat it in poison next game.  She was happy.  (Should I be alarmed that my daughter enjoys playing assassins?)

The Mana Fluctuation card -- I like this one -- the Boy was so disappointed after he rolled a 1 and couldn't do spells (without doing blood magic) that I ruled that if the Mana fluctuation came up as +2 afterward we could instead choose to let him cast spells again.  In other words, it would recharge his magical energy instead of giving the +2 to casting.

On a natural 20 to hit, you do +1 damage.  It just seems right.  :-)

Any questions, just ask.  Pictures to come, hopefully!

Best,
Nicholas

[Anselm van Helsing]

This is interesting. I've also run miniature stories for kids. We didn't use any rules, but if this continues, the boys will likely want more structured games. They're under ten. What do you think, how suitable the system you used would be?

[Hobgoblin]

Great report! I've had great fun using it with my kids and their friends too - it's really a gem of a game.

On crossbows: your solution sounds perfectly good. I think the rules do have a built-in justification for how crossbows work, though, in that levels of the crossbow skill cost half as much as archery. I quite like that, as longbows did require much more strength and skill to use (hence the various prohibitions on football in favour of archery practice in Scotland and England). The longbow was a superior weapon to the crossbow, but you couldn't just shove one into the hands of a raw recruit and have him proficient in a week or two. So the higher cost for archery makes a certain sense, in that you can hire crossbowmen more cheaply than archers. But what you've done is clearly a good way of simplifying things.

This is interesting. I've also run miniature stories for kids. We didn't use any rules, but if this continues, the boys will likely want more structured games. They're under ten. What do you think, how suitable the system you used would be?

Just to add my tuppence-worth to housecaldwell's: our youngest player was six when she played it, and got on fine (though she's a veteran Song of Blades and Heroes player!). The mechanics are easy to grasp. I think most Ganesha rulesets are pretty easy for kids: I got back into gaming through painting up miniatures for SoBH for my son's sixth birthday, and he's loved it ever since. The "roll one to three dice and take consequences from any failures" mechanic is common to SoBH and Sellswords & Spellslingers, and is easy for kids to grasp. It's a good way of teaching them a bit about probability too!

[shandy]

That sounds great! I'm also enjoying S&S very much. Looking forward to hearing more about your campaign.

[dinohunterpoa]

housecaldwell, I liked very much your creative considerations towards a more cooperative play, no surprise your players liked it a lot! 

Looking forward to see the PICTURES! 

[Dentatus]

PS -- I would buy a science-fiction version of this in an instant!  This is the game I wanted Rogue Stars to be.

That's a telling statement. My entire group was so disappointed (underwhelmed?) with Rogue Stars, we haven't investigated S&S. I might rethink that now.
Thank you for the bat rep. 

[midismirnoff]

PS -- I would buy a science-fiction version of this in an instant!  This is the game I wanted Rogue Stars to be.

That's a telling statement. My entire group was so disappointed (underwhelmed?) with Rogue Stars, we haven't investigated S&S. I might rethink that now.
Thank you for the bat rep. 

I've also bought Rogue Stars but didn't like it at all. Now I'm into SS&SS with both feet and can't wait to play it again. A SF version of it would be easy to design and very fun to play.

[housecaldwell]

They're under ten. What do you think, how suitable the system you used would be?

You know - I think there should be a resource for gamers playing with their kids.  Maybe there is one and I just don't know of it.  Maybe I should start one if there isn't. :-)

But to answer your question, I'd have no hesitation running this game with 10 year olds.  I was starting to play D&D (the old basic rules) around then and this is way less complex.  I'd say maybe 8 is the lower limit?

Here's what I would watch out for: the main decision point is how many activation dice do you roll?  As long as they can understand the risk-reward mechanism there, then you could handle calculating the "to-hit" numbers.  That's basically what I was doing - "Ok, before you roll your dice, let's think about the situation.  There's a horde of 3 goblins there that are only 1 move away from you, so they could get activated and they would outnumber you so you might get hurt.  With 2 actions you could move away and then cast your magic missile."  That kind of thing -- just helping them see the tactical situation.  And then I would do the calculation for the to-hit roll "Ok, the ork is a base 7 to-hit and you have Sword +2 so you need a 5 or higher.  Roll!"

The other thing to watch out for is that since the system has so much randomness built-in (which is a good thing in general), it's also possible for the game to be terribly unfair (like our first game).  So either you could say "We're playing together against the game and the game might beat us" or you could fudge it.  I did a little of both. :-)

While it's a "no gamemaster needed" game, I think having someone to make those judgement calls for kids or inexperienced adults helps quite a bit.   

[housecaldwell]

Great report! I've had great fun using it with my kids and their friends too - it's really a gem of a game.

It really is - and elegant rules are simple to tinker with to make it your own.  Not that it needs it but we all like to tinker, don't we?

On crossbows: your solution sounds perfectly good. I think the rules do have a built-in justification for how crossbows work, though, in that levels of the crossbow skill cost half as much as archery.

Whoops!  I quite missed the cost difference - thought they were costed the same.  That makes more sense, then as does your historical justification for it.  So I shall increase my crossbow cost in my house rule.  That gives a nice balance with the Archer with the Archer better at taking out 1hp hordes and the Crossbow able to 1-shot a 2hp creature. 

<snip>  The "roll one to three dice and take consequences from any failures" mechanic is common to SoBH and Sellswords & Spellslingers, and is easy for kids to grasp. It's a good way of teaching them a bit about probability too!

Totally agree!

Best, Nick

[housecaldwell]

PS -- I would buy a science-fiction version of this in an instant!  This is the game I wanted Rogue Stars to be.

That's a telling statement. My entire group was so disappointed (underwhelmed?) with Rogue Stars, we haven't investigated S&S. I might rethink that now.
Thank you for the bat rep. 

Same here.  I think Andreas might have taken that criticism to heart.  I wouldn't have looked at it except for the other battle reports here.

[housecaldwell]

I've also bought Rogue Stars but didn't like it at all. Now I'm into SS&SS with both feet and can't wait to play it again. A SF version of it would be easy to design and very fun to play.

Indeed.  In fact, when my wife took the Whirlwind of Steel and waded through a horde of goblins it occurred to me that I was seeing a Jedi in action...

Especially since I took the Martial Block trait (which basically allows a limited use of your hands as a shield) and renamed it Parry for her dual sword wielding character.   So an arrow becomes a blaster bolt and her Martial Block allows her to block it with her lightsaber...

[housecaldwell]

Oh! One more house rule I forgot which is especially good for kids:
Spellcasters in the game have to make a roll to see if they cast the spell successfully.  The Boy really wanted to be Merlin, so I decided that he would never FAIL to cast a spell.  If he didn't roll high enough, then the spell would still work but something unexpected would happen.  So when he failed to cast Magic Dart, I described the Dart flying from his hand and striking the Ork warrior's shield and magical energy exploding and leaving a burn mark on the shield. 

Similarly for his teleport spell, I was planning to have the teleport still work but instead of landing at the intended point he'd land 2d6 inches away in a random direction.

This of course is borrowed from RPGs (Dungeon World in particular, for me) and it makes the game way more entertaining (invite the other kids to make up reasons the spell failed to damage or had an unexpected effect).  That way it's the spell failing, not whoever rolled the dice.  (Man, why didn't anyone do this for me when I was a kid? I have a lifelong reputation for unlucky dice rolls).

Best, Nick

[Parkaboy]

Just to clarify, we're talking about Sellswords and Spellslingers right? Not Spellcasters? I only know of the former.

[Gabbi]

Nice report. Got the game a few days ago, still have to print and read it, though...

Still on the fence regarding cards: it's best to buy them as  pod or print them myself at the store? Usually I would order them as pod without thinking twice, but printing myself would allow me to add custom cards in the future, if I'll feel so, while mixing "home" printed cards and professionally printed ones could not give the best results...