Sci-Fi Skirmish Rules?

[Doc Twilight]

Looking for sci-fi skirmish rules. I have many different figs in many different ranges, but GW isn't an option. I like Fantastic Worlds, but it's a bit too low level for what I'm thinking of. Chaos on Chronos also seems to be a little lower level than what I'm looking for.

Essentially, I'd like to do a game with a few squads and perhaps a vehicle or two on a side. Star Grunt II is nice, but it's quite detailed, and I don't think the group would go for it. Nor do I think they'd be keen on the current rage for "uber detailed skirmish rules" in general.

 So, moderate complexity at best, customizable lists, medium sized engagements. You have your assignment, lads. Now get to it;)

Seriously, any suggestions would be grateful, and warmly entertained.

-Doc

[The Rock]

1)No Limits: free generic sci-fi rules, good for skirmish and big battles
http://www.wargamesunlimited.net/nolimits/index.html

2)Combat Zone: nice skirmish rules (5-15 miniatures for side + 1-2 veicles)
Combat zone support site
http://www.combatzonechronicles.net/

[matakishi]

Crossfire is an excellent basis for any small scale (company sized) game involving guns. A little hard to find these days but worth tracking down.

[Pil]

I really like Combat Zone, the system is very simple, which makes it very customisable as well. It works well for some small squads (10-15 models). It would probably also work for somewhat larger games, especially if you simplify the equipment of your models a bit (ie. give everyone the same weapons). It works based on action points which makes it eay to incorporate special actions (just assign an amount of action points to them). There are also rules for robots with special damage tables.

The downsides are that there aren't really well-designed and conceptualised army lists available (there are lists but they're so-so), and there are only experimental vehicle rules. These things make Combat Zone better suited for scenario play than for competitive play, but with a bit of trouble and a bit of thought you can make do.

[whisperin_al]

5150 from Two Hour Wargames might suit - if you like their reaction system (some do, some don't).  To get an idea you can download the core Chain Reaction 3.0 rules for free from their site:

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/index.html

[Mad Carew Snr]

I've recently downloaded the Crimson Dusk rules from LAFs very own dijit, though I haven't tried them yet:-

"Crimson Dusk - Rules in development for generic sci-fi, near future and post apocalyptic games with whatever minis you want. Looking for collaborators, playtesters, etc:"
http://www.crimsondusk.webs.com/

[Braxandur]

5150 from Two Hour Wargames might suit - if you like their reaction system (some do, some don't).  To get an idea you can download the core Chain Reaction 3.0 rules for free from their site:

http://www.angelfire.com/az3/twohourwargames/index.html

I was wondering, does 5150 have armylists with point values? It's not that I mind the random generation of a force, but I do like pointvalues. Even if only as a guideline, it makes it easier to come up with your own scenarios and the like.

[dijit]

I've recently downloaded the Crimson Dusk rules from LAFs very own dijit, though I haven't tried them yet:-

"Crimson Dusk - Rules in development for generic sci-fi, near future and post apocalyptic games with whatever minis you want. Looking for collaborators, playtesters, etc:"
http://www.crimsondusk.webs.com/

Well thankyou Mad Carew.

I've had the same problem Doc Twilight. All the rules I've found are either tied too tightly into a specific with very specific rules system and army lists are only available for the forces that the company produces. Then there are a few other options:

Combat Zone - good if you want skirmishes in an urban setting. Though there isn't really any 'military' forces and aliens don't exist too well in an integrated way. And vehicles are an afterthought.

THW's 5150/Chain reaction - if you like their reaction system then they seem ok. Personally I don't like their system and find that their not all that customisable or diverse.

No Limits - ok, but very GW inspired with similar profiles and mechanics. Pretty good if you want to ween people off GW. Personally like WH40K I found it too crude, though it is very customisable.

Warhammer 40K Rogue Trader - the original ruleset. If you can find it it offers a lot of possibilities, including being able to design your own troops, vehicles, etc. Pretty customisable and ok rules.

Mutants and Death Ray Guns - I like these rules. They pretty good for post-apocalyptic games, and would love it if they did a more 'high sci-fi' version, until they do they don't really suit my games too well.

I wasn't happy with any of the above, which is what has lead me to writing 'Crimson Dusk', it's in the process of being corrected and edited at the moment, so its by no means complete yet, but you're welcome to give it a try.

[whisperin_al]

I was wondering, does 5150 have armylists with point values? It's not that I mind the random generation of a force, but I do like pointvalues. Even if only as a guideline, it makes it easier to come up with your own scenarios and the like.

5150 has a campaign system which allows for the generation of individual encounters.  It does have army lists and it handles alien races very nicely by giving them different reaction tables and results from humans and each other.  It also has points costs listed for troops and equipment.

[whisperin_al]

THW's 5150/Chain reaction - if you like their reaction system then they seem ok. Personally I don't like their system and find that their not all that customisable or diverse.

I appreciate that the reaction system isn't for everyone.  It took me a while to get into it myself but now I'm a huge fan, I love they way it properly puts you in the position of the squad leader.

I wasn't sure what you meant by the comment regarding customisation/diversity?  Obviously the rules revolve around the core mechanism and so are difficult to adapt to other systems but I've always found adding new equipment etc. relatively straightforward.

[Mark Plant]

I wasn't sure what you meant by the comment regarding customisation/diversity?  Obviously the rules revolve around the core mechanism and so are difficult to adapt to other systems but I've always found adding new equipment etc. relatively straightforward.

I'm thinking about buying 5150, but this lack of customisation has worried me. As I understand it, you can have a grunt, rep 3, a veteran, rep 4, and a hero rep 5. But how do you customise for anything between these grades?

I want to be able to have stormtroopers at rep 3.5, for example. Better than grunts, but still able to have a veteran stormtrooper at a higher rep.

(I may buy a whole lot of d10s or d12s and make rep 3 = 6, rep 4 = 8 and then I can have a rep 3.5 = 7.)

[rjandron]

Well, you're already aware of Stargrunt II. It may seem fiddly, but once you get into it, it will do the work very nicely.

Although it's not strictly SF, I can also suggest that you try Force on Force from Ambush Alley Games. This will handle up to platoon-level engagements and is quite customizable. Vehicles are treated somewhat abstractly under the rules system, but that shouldn't be too big of a problem if you're only running a couple of vehicles on the table. We tried a skirmish game between Modern US Specops and Modern Chinese regulars and it was a real nail-biter with the battle being very much in doubt right to the last die roll. They are working on a SF ruleset as well.

As far as infantry combat goes, FoF is very nice. Vehicles are a bit too abstract for my tastes though but that's easy enough to modify.

[dijit]

I wasn't sure what you meant by the comment regarding customisation/diversity?  Obviously the rules revolve around the core mechanism and so are difficult to adapt to other systems but I've always found adding new equipment etc. relatively straightforward.

I'm thinking about buying 5150, but this lack of customisation has worried me. As I understand it, you can have a grunt, rep 3, a veteran, rep 4, and a hero rep 5. But how do you customise for anything between these grades?

That was my problem with chainreaction, it was just too straightjacketing, and from what I've seen just no where near enough options, weapon choices, skills, etc for my liking.

[whisperin_al]

I've done lots of conversions between systems and the important issue is to distinguish between try to reproduce the mechanics and trying to reproduce the results.

The ThW Reaction System can be made more flexible in a number of ways.  You can have different Reps for different tests for example one for "in sight" and a different one for firing.  The alternative is to give certain attributes to certain types of troops However, I've found that it increases the complexity and my memory is such that I often forget to apply them!  Another alternative is to tweak the reaction tables.

I know that the THW fantasy rules use a d10 rather than a d6 but you would need to keep an eye on the probabilities using the different dice sizes as these can get a bit skewed.

I must admit I tend to use the rules more for "hard SF" and so am looking for something closer to moderns but with alien races and so have not needed to customise them a huge amount.

[revford]

Customisation in 5150 comes not just from REP, but from reaction tables, attributes, weapons and armour.

Reaction Tables are the way to create units that act differently, the 5150 rulebook contains tables for Basics (civillians), Mercs, different grades of Military and several kinds of aliens.  These make the different forces act in different ways when they spot the enemy, are fired upon, are charged or want to charge and so on.

Attributes are skills that you can give to individuals that set them out from the rest of their unit, there are both good and bad Attributes.

There are plenty of ranged weapon options in 5150, but not so many melee weapons as it's a shooty game.  Each weapon can have a different affect on any of the eight kinds of personal armour available, so Reflective Armour is better again Lasers for example.

Your Stormtrooper doesn't have to be REP 3.5, he could just use a Military rather than a Basic Reaction Table and have armour the offers good protection against solid rounds and poor verses Lasers and armed with a Laser Carbine and be REP 3 for cannon fodder troops and REP4 for Good Soldiers.