Looking for some decent WW2 "small action" rules.

[Doc Twilight]

Hello, fellow league members!

So, here's the issue. I am looking for some WW2 rules, and I haven't had much luck with the current crop of what's available or known to me. This is particularly frustrating, as I find that WW2 is often over-saturated with rules, but I'm sure some of you would agree that finding a "jewel" is not an easy thing.

Yes, I could write my own, but thing is I'm currently testing my own rules for two different periods, and this is something I'd rather play sooner than later.

What I'm trying to do is to find an appropriate set of rules to represent a small action - something that isn't quite a skirmish, but isn't quite on a large scale, either. The battle I'd like to recreate is one of the series of actions on the North Carpathian Front in 1944. This particular engagement involves a composite Hungarian armored battlegroup against a slightly understrength Soviet armored brigade.
The action is too small to run with Panzer Korps, and too big to run with something like Battleground WW2.

So, essentially, what I'm looking for is a set of rules that would allow me to recreate this action (and others) at roughly the Platoon level (ie: one stand equals one platoon). It would need to be convention/demo friendly, and to be of no more than moderate complexity (as my local group is pretty tired of very detailed rulesets, but on the other hand, I'm not willing to go with something so abstracted that it's generic). The only set that I can think of off hand to accomplish this goal is "Battlefront WW2", but these rules are not popular with my local group. There is also "Blitzkrieg Commander", but I would prefer to wait for the new edition of those rules before exploring those waters again.

The rules would also need to have the ability to use vehicles of the "Minor" Powers (ie: Hungary, etc.), either directly, or with some sort of clearly spelled out "this is how to create your own armies" formula.

I rarely rove beyond the Early and Mid War periods in Europe, but the battle fascinates me enough that I think it would be fun to recreate.

Would appreciate any recommendations!

-Doc

[Chuckaroobob]

I've had fun playing the Iron Ivan rules "Disposable Heroes" although I don't think there are specific lists for Hungarians or other minor powers.  They have a yahoogroup if you'd like to check them out.

[elysium64]

I have had fun adapting "Operation Overlord 1944" Though these rules have very limited army lists, I think the mechanics of the game are superb and would work very well in a convention game.

[Raz]

NUTS from THW is a very nice imho. It's action-driven and once you get the hang of it, the rules are brilliant! A normal game is about 1-3 squads of 8-10 men or smaller, but it can quickly get out of hand if you or your opponent get reinforcements (if you choose to use these). It's definitely something to look into if I were you.

[gamer Mac]

I am no expert but I had a couple of fun games with TooFatlardies "I ain't been shot mum". Sounds about right size of game.
http://www.toofatlardies.co.uk/IABSM.html

[midismirnoff]

If I understood allright you want 1 stand = 1 platoon, which is not the case of NUTS, DH/C7B etc. You may want to try Crossfire, where a stand is a generic "group" (even if originally written as 1 stand = 1 squad, I've seen it played it with 6mm which is quite abstract). The mechanics are fantastic and the OrBat quite loose so you won't find it difficult to create your own.

[gamer Mac]

Have you tried "Rapid Fire"?

[fastolfrus]

We play quite a bit of PBI (Poor Bloody Infantry from Peter Pig) which is company level (one company per side, subdivided into platoons, each usually made up of about half a dozen stands), but works quite well.
We've played multiplayer at the club, slows things slightly but entirely feasible.

Normal games run to a conclusion in under two hours, sometimes under one.

The Peter Pig website has a proper write-up of the game plus a free demo copy of the basic rules, although these are very abridged it might give you an idea of the basics.

There is a larger scale version called Abteilung, but I have no idea how they play.

[Raz]

Have to read more carefully before posting

NUTS won't do indeed, Rapid Fire might be a good idea. You can take a look at the rules here:

http://www.rapid-fire.uk.com/rf_for_rookies.pdf

[janner]

Rapid Fire 2 would also be my suggestion.

Regards,

[Lowtardog]

What about crossfire?

http://crossfire.wargaming.info/

[Doc Twilight]

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Re: Rapid Fire

To my understanding, RF is an individually based game, and so far as I know, there are no stats for Hungarian vehicles, and I haven't seen an Eastern Front supplement this side of the pond yet, though of course I could be mistaken?

-Doc

[fastolfrus]

Re: Rapid Fire
Eastern Front supplement

Not sure which side of the pond you are on, but the Eastern Front was covered in an RF supplement years ago, although that would be 1st edition RF.

[gamer Mac]

I don't think the stats for vehicle changed between the 1st and 2nd edition.
What sort of vehicles did the Hungarians use? Did they not have a lot of German stuff. I will have a look at my 1st edition supplements and check for Hungarians.
As for size it uses about eight figures to represent a company of infantry. These can be based either as single figures, like mine, or I have seen people use two or three figures to a base. You do need some single based ones to remove casualties.
The standard ratio for the figures are 1 figure = 15 men and 1 vehicle/gun model = 5 vehicles.
Some of the scenarios use different ratios. There have been games where the eight figures represent a platoon not a company. As long as both sides in the game use the same ratios there should not be a problem.

[Doc Twilight]

Re: Rapid Fire
Eastern Front supplement

Not sure which side of the pond you are on, but the Eastern Front was covered in an RF supplement years ago, although that would be 1st edition RF.

I was referring to the 2nd Edition, which as far as I know only covered late war Americans, British, and Germans in the initial release.

Mac -

The Hungarians had their own armor as well. They had the second largest armored component on the Axis side in Russia (Germany's being the first).

-Alex