Crimean War French armament question

[OB]

I decided to have my first go with FoB3 using my Crimean War Army.  Somewhere at the back of my mind  I think the French Army was not armed with the Minie Rifle?  If anyone can confirm this it will be appreciated.  Thanks.

[SJWi]

I am pretty certain that the French army were extensively equipped with the Minié.

[OB]

Point me in the right direction for a source if you would SJWi.

[Calimero]

This Wikipedia page (in french); https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusil_Mini%C3%A9

talk about a "limited use" of the Fusil Minié during the Crimean War...

[OB]

Thanks Calimero.

Yes, that seems to indicate the French Army had not been issued with Minie's.  I think I may have got my initial info from the Victorian Wars Forum which seems to have disappeared.

[Calimero]

http://armesfrancaises.free.fr/fusil%20d%27infanterie%20Mle%201822T%20bis.html

If I understand correctly, the Fusil modèle 1822 T was used between 1840 and 1860. It was an upgraded (to cap primer) smoothbore musket… the 1822 T bis, available in the 1860 was again a modified type which was upgraded with a rifled barrel…

Contrary to other types of "rifles" on their site, they didn’t seem to know for sure the period in which these modified longarm where used. 1840 to 1870 seem to be an approximation only. The next "official rifle of the French army", the Chassepot was adopted in 1866.

[OB]

That's very helpful thank you. 

I think I'll go with smoothbores on the strength of it.

[ChrisBBB]

This is something I looked into in some detail, got wrong in BBEB, and have since been corrected. As I recall:

French Guard, Zouaves and Chasseurs had rifles in the Crimea. All the rest had smoothbore muskets.

However, these were not Minie but 'carabine a tige', a somewhat inferior weapon (but still better than a smoothbore musket).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabine_%C3%A0_tige

The British Minie rifles made such an impression on the French that in 1857 they hastily converted 1000s of muskets (M51 pattern?) to Minie rifles (M57?).

Hope that helps.

Chris

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[OB]

It does indeed Chris thank you. 

I had come across a reference to the Chasseurs longer ranged weapons but that was it.  You have put meat on the bones with Carabine a tige.

[ChrisBBB]

You're welcome, OB. I found the Crimean War made for surprisingly good games, not least because of the asymmetry between the opposing armies. Have fun with your FOB3 games!

Chris

[OB]

Cheers Chris.  I will be reporting back on how I got on.

[Mark Strachan]

This article might be of interest

https://web.archive.org/web/20080225173211/http://www.debellum.org/rifletech.asp

[OB]

Of great interest thank you Mark.  I think everyone interested in the period would benefit from reading it. 

It was the opinion of of W.H Russell that but for the rifled musket both the Crimea and the Mutiny would have been defeats for the British Army.  Russell observed the fighting in both theatres at close range.

Btw, I very much enjoy the Carlist War stuff on your blog.

[vtsaogames]

Excellent article, thank you.

I think the sharply curved trajectory of Minie bullets combined with the deep Russian infantry formations made for a "perfect storm" of Russian losses. The tendency of most troops in the black powder period was to fire high. Shots sailing over the front ranks of deep columns and plunging down into the the middle or rear ranks might explain the extremely high Russian losses at the Alma, Inkerman, or any time they engaged the Allies in the open field. 

Edit: I suspect that the Colonel de Lorencz mentioned is the same chap who went on to be defeated at the Cinco de Mayo and then command a division in the Franco-Prussian War.

[Calimero]

This article might be of interest

https://web.archive.org/web/20080225173211/http://www.debellum.org/rifletech.asp

Am I wrong to assume that, in the subtext, the French commentators seems to prefer the élan and a more aggressive approach on the battlefield (for example, bayonet charges) than effective fire… That approach being the same that led to the slaughters of the first weeks of WWI.