Medieval help needed!

[Oldboy]

Dear all
I am about to embark on a small Medieval project and have the following questions. I must admit I find the whole Medieval thing very confusing.
I would like to use the Footsore Barons war figures. I think I read somewhere that they are suitable for (the 2nd?) Crusade. If this is the case then I guess I can use the Footsore Arab type figures. My questions are:-

1. The FS personalities have a banner man. He comes with a 10cm pole. What size is generally used. 10cm seems rather long.
2. I still await my WI mag for September (I am in Italy and it takes ages) Can the rules with this issue be used for the crusades or Barons war? Also do they play solo. I believe they are card driven?
3. If I use the Barons War figures in the Crusades would they have kept their own heraldry or use a collective image, such as the white coat and red cross?
4. Would it be better if I re-watch Kingdom of Heaven and copy. I believe others here have done so to good effect?
I do have several books on order from Amazon but they will take a while to arrive. Would welcome other book suggestions, especially around uniforms.

Thank you in advance. Frank

[Dags]

Cut down the pole to a more appropriate length.... 10cm, roughly, equates to a 20' pole so too long.

The director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven is great fun (the standard version is, imo, pants) but it is Hollywood not History so should be treated as such.

[Atheling]

Hi Oldbob,

Here's a couple of pics of some Knights Templar that I painted up years ago that ought to give you some idea of what my take on the banners is:



The actual banners are certainly larger then they would have been in the 11 and 12CE but I just tend to go with what feels right to me.

I hope that this is of some use. If not please feel free to PM me and I'll send you some pics of some of the banners I painted for my 1430's HYW project.

[HappyChappy439]

3. If I use the Barons War figures in the Crusades would they have kept their own heraldry or use a collective image, such as the white coat and red cross?

Thank you in advance. Frank

My understanding is that the crusaders themselves were a bit of a patchwork army, so almost all of them would wear a cross sewn on their clothes somewhere, but not necessarily any unified heraldry or colours within the army. Individual lords, kings and knights would probably display their own heraldry and banners, while the common infantry wouldn't have much of a 'uniform' to speak of (I'm not sure about shields though, hopefully someone can clarify there!). Painting heraldry and banners is a lot of fun though, a bit fiddly at times, but definitely rewarding if you wanted to try that!

The knights and retainers belonging to the military orders would share a unified look though, if that helps! So if you had an army themed around a specific order, you could share the iconography and colours between them.

Hopefully that helps! (And hopefully I'm not wildly incorrect!)

Looking forward to seeing your work! 


 

[Andrew_McGuire]

Footsore's Barons' War rage is designed for the rebellion against King John which led to Magna Carta, so the armour and dress are more appropriate for the third - fifth Crusades than the second, which was 60 years prior. In fact the fifth Crusade was only two years after the rebellion, so this must be considered the closest match. This will matter far less for common footsoldiers than for knights and nobles, of course.

With regard to point 2, the rules in the current issue of WI are designed for the Wars of the Roses (1455 - 1487). The designer states that they can be easily adapted to the Hundred Years' War, but I think backdating them another couple of centuries, never mind adding rules to depict the characteristics of Muslim armies, would stretch them somewhat, which isn't to say that it couldn't be done, though not, I think, with the cards as currently designed.

[Oldboy]

Thank you to everyone. I have enough of a basis to start my armies. Will probably try Lion Rampant for rules.
Regards
Frank

[Maniac]

Saga: Crescent and Cross is centered on the crusades and is my favorite edition of the rules.  It has rules for Spanish, Crusader, and Military Orders as well as Moors and Saracens.  See also Osprey’s Faith and Blood, which is small unit campaign style skirmish.

[SteveBurt]

Saga: Crescent and Cross is centered on the crusades and is my favorite edition of the rules.  It has rules for Spanish, Crusader, and Military Orders as well as Moors and Saracens.  See also Osprey’s Faith and Blood, which is small unit campaign style skirmish.

Crescent and Cross is for v1 of Saga. If using the latest edition of the rules, you want Age of Crusades, which comes with 12 factions; the boards are much better designed than those in Crescent and Cross which has some very poor ones (notably the Saracens); the v2 Saracen are much better

[Michi]

The director's cut of Kingdom of Heaven is great fun (the standard version is, imo, pants) but it is Hollywood not History so should be treated as such.

I was heavily influenced by that movie (director's cut of course) for the look of my crusaders' banners:

[Atheling]

I was heavily influenced by that movie (director's cut of course) for the look of my crusaders' banners:

Spectacular Michi 

[bluewillow]

The footsore figures are more suited for after the 3rd crusade. They are really for the Plantagenet civil wars and the Capetian, but could be used for the 4th and 5th crusades.

The Footsore knights have tabards, the shield has changed completely, along with helms.

I will be using mine for the Plantagenet troubles of Richards return -Barons rebellion Maine, Anjou, Brittany rebellion, John - Arthur fighting and the invasion of england, and counter invasion of Brittany and final defeat of John and the Cathar wars.

Cheers
Matt

[Atheling]

I will be using mine for the Plantagenet troubles of Richards return -Barons rebellion Maine, Anjou, Brittany rebellion, John - Arthur fighting and the invasion of england, and counter invasion of Brittany and final defeat of John and the Cathar wars.

Which brings back a few memories. Correct me if I'm wrong Matt but I think the Baron's War was some of the first Blog content you produced? Excellent stuff it was too 

[bluewillow]

Which brings back a few memories. Correct me if I'm wrong Matt but I think the Baron's War was some of the first Blog content you produced? Excellent stuff it was too 

Yes the fine rolls and the Magna Carta list on the old slingshot forum lost now except possibly on the wayback machine.

I have a more comprehensive list now that will be released with my book on the period which will include heraldry, a small French and English campaigns, plus a list of sieges and battles of the Plantagenet civil wars and the Capetian wars.

Cheers
Matt