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Author Topic: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set  (Read 6290 times)

Offline Captain Harlock

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 472
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #45 on: January 02, 2021, 12:53:59 PM »
Thank you for the feedback guys! I highly encourage critisism as well, it can only make the future product better and dont worry about hurting my feelings. Being able to take and analyze feedback is part of the graphic designer’s job description. So no sensitive artiste here  lol.

I wish to address some of the points made in order to shed some more light.

Size/Proportions

Coming from a scale modelling background (plus an artistic one involving drawing/painting), I always hated with passion the squated dwarf like anatomy of the classic tabletop minis. I understand that the style became an industry standard and most professional sculptors cater to this classic look. Personally I like minis that try to stay closer to a more realistic anatomy.
An average man anatomically is about 6,5 heads tall and if we are aiming for a super heroic anatomy we are going into the 8 head high territory. The stubby style minis are in the area of 4 heads high. If you take a look at the pic Jjonas posted you will realize that the heads of the shorter minis would easily fit Talos miniatures and some of them would even probably be on the big side. The same goes for the arms and torsos.
So my aim was to create basically wha was not available for me to buy as a hobbyist/customer. Historically accurate hoplites with more or less ‘‘correct’’ proportions.  I wanted minis that if we could only see a silouette or shadow of them, they would look like men, not hobbits  ;D
I based the minis height on two metallic Footsore ones for Mortal Gods by Stavros Zouliatis. Stavros actually is a friend of my brother and he was kind enough to share some insight on the armature construction. Prior to these minis I had done some conversions of Perry War of the Roses, a Burgundian in romanesque armour based on a Perry mini understructure and a Byzantine cataphract. So these 5, were practically my first minis sculpted from the ground up. 2 of them, Kallimachos and Aristodemos, are abit taller but imo they fit in due to their proportions as taller men. To be completely honest I was in a state of ‘’Look mom I made a mini’’  lol so I wasnt going to risk cutting them down and destroying them for 2 extra mm, especially when even victrix is not consistent among its plastics.

The base
The base adds to the height effect. Also if you notice I raised the minis just abit off the ground level for two reasons.
A) To be able to easily saw off the base if you want. B)If you decide to keep it to accomodate for basing materials without making the foot look as if it sinks in mud.
Initially The minis were intended to come with an intergrated thin 25mm round base with sculpted texture ready for painting. After doing a first run,  I realised why 9 out of 10 companies do not do it  lol. Its a packaging nightmare and its difficult to cast. The base doubles basically as a pouring funnel. So the resin as it sets will sink abit and possible air bubbles will end up going up at the bottom of the base. Imaging having to set miniatures aside as miscasts because of a friggin base..

The Dory
I was really puzzled with the dory production wise. One option was to have open hands and not provide a spear. I dont like that as a customer and I guess nobody else does. Plus these open hands usually are crudely made because fingers are a casting nightmare (as I also found out after an experiment). Then there was the option of these standard steel spears. I dont like the way they look, I would have to buy them from a third party overseas adding to waiting time and expenses, AND I DONT LIKE THEM  lol. There was a thought of providing my version of proper metallic spears out of copper wire but logic prevailed  lol. Then I thought of casting a spearhead and sauroter out of resin and provide a rod. But all this drilling would be something that most people would like to avoid.
So I went with the soundest solution. A thicker Dory to withstand breaking and bending. Actually its quite strong. In the ones that I assembled I put a small pin for extra extra safety and you can easily lift the mini by the spear without breaking. Even the ones that fell over or other minis fell over them in the box that i keep them, held up. Now IT IS resin and there is only so much strenght to it.
I recognise a mistake I made. I was aiming for accuracy and made the proper length of a dory. Its one of the times that I need someone over my head to scream ‘’ You are not making scale models you idiot!!!’’  lol. I should keep it at the same length with the Victrix ones. If somebody wants to shorten it down its a quite easy conversion with a small drill and a pin to connect the pieces again. But I should have foreseen it that people would like it not to stand out so much even if its accurate.

Lessons Learned, Things to improve, Things to come
Molding and casting my sculpts by myself, was a pain at many points, as I had to test different brands of material and methods in order to find out what works for me. But it also gave me a small degree of understanding of the technical aspect and control on the product. There is a reason why most manufacturers instruct their sculptors to keep their figures within the limits of one plane and limit protruding details and undercuts. While Im not willing to give up more ‘‘vivid’’ poses even if its way harder to cast, at least now I know where to cut the minis and the optimal way to do it.
On the next figures I wish to improve upon the ease of assembly so even novices can do it as fast and easy as possible given the material and detailed small parts. Also I wish to bring the scale down just a tiny bit, so the rank and file units Im currently making fit better with Victrix plastics. Im not going to distort the proportions just make the guys abit shorter. Victrix basically have no neck and they are clipping away 2-3mm from the thighs, if you add these back they will be as tall as mine.
I also aim for making some extra pair of hands, that will make the next 5 minis, even more able for variations and kitbashes, combined with the head sets. If all goes well, you will be able to assemble a formidable phalanx that will look like a miniature McBride or Connoly illustration. Dont hesitate to post any ideas.

@Jjonas
Cant wait to see Talos minis posted in your site!

@Tonhel
I love the vivid color schemes!!

@Muzfish4
Extra thanks for mentioning the box. There is not a readily available box that could follow the postal service guidelines (if you dont want the shipping to skyrocket) and accomodate in the safest possible way the minis. Due to the lock down I couldnt custom order boxes because the packaging companies are either closed down or do not deliver to the location I am (my country side residence out of Athens). So... yeah I had to make them myself. At least in that way I ensured that they are postal service proof  ;D

Thank you all again  :-*


TALOS MINIATURES

Offline Fremitus Borealis

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 396
  • Magister Discipulorum
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #46 on: January 02, 2021, 08:01:32 PM »
Wow, Captain, fascinating look at the thought process of your minis! I enjoyed reading everything that went into them.
"Nice try, history; better luck next year."

Offline Jjonas

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 349
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2021, 08:55:34 PM »
"@Jjonas
Cant wait to see Talos minis posted in your site!"

Me too. I also was trying some experiments with the extra heads on plastic bodies. I decided that I will do the first character with a sword instead of spear. (I am too fumble thumbed to pin such a small joint.)

JJonas

Offline sgzleada71

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 299
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2021, 02:36:22 PM »
Hi Captain Harlock.   Firstly I'd like to say your figures are superb.  The fact you are new to sculpting miniatures only adds to the awe I feel for your skills.  I've tried a few sculpts  and given up in disgust at my sculpting skills.   I was wondering if you'd considered larger sets and more mass production to bring down the cost  per unit.   Given they are compatible w Victrix and  Warlord Games kits  if  you were to make sprues of the 5 bodies and heads plus another set of head options you could sell say 6 sprues = 30 figures.   With kitbashing w  Victrix/Warlord games this would provide a huge number of permutations of unique soldiers and make your beautiful guys more cost effective.   

Offline Captain Harlock

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 472
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #49 on: February 03, 2021, 10:41:04 PM »
Hi Captain Harlock.   Firstly I'd like to say your figures are superb.  The fact you are new to sculpting miniatures only adds to the awe I feel for your skills.  I've tried a few sculpts  and given up in disgust at my sculpting skills.   I was wondering if you'd considered larger sets and more mass production to bring down the cost  per unit.   Given they are compatible w Victrix and  Warlord Games kits  if  you were to make sprues of the 5 bodies and heads plus another set of head options you could sell say 6 sprues = 30 figures.   With kitbashing w  Victrix/Warlord games this would provide a huge number of permutations of unique soldiers and make your beautiful guys more cost effective.

Hi! Thanks for your kind words!
I would say give sculpting another try. I might have minimal experience in sculpting, but due to drawing I already knew the basics of proportions and anatomy, so I had a bit of a headstart. You just need to press on and as with drawing think analyticaly, breaking down the large forms into smaller basic geometric shapes. It has more to do with observation and eye-hand coordination than with talent.

The problem with offering sprues, is the extremely high cost of plastic molds. I mean even well established and extremely successful companies are crowdfunding their new plastic ranges now. Im a one man band. You know playing, guitar, harmonica, singing and kicking the drum  lol. Since plastic is out of the question we are left with the options of metal and resin. Metal is theoretically cheaper but I have no access to a metal casting company in Greece and until the whole Brexit thing settles down to an understanding between EU and UK (which I think that will eventually be  possible) I cant access british casting services. On top of that, metal simply cannot capture all the detail. Resin on the other hand is easier to use in garage kit situations, captures the detail PERFECTLY (seriously I cant tell the masters from the repros), but has higher costs involved due to the gradual deterioration of the molds.

BUT the next wave of Talos minis will be 6 standing hoplites and one kneeling heavy archer that could also double as Marine. Im aiming for interchangable arms, weapons options, heads (a possible third set) and if you add to these the victrix ones, then you can have ALOT of variation. Im thinking to make them available as set and as single minis so people wil be free to mix order as many as they want from each pose. There will be overhand and underhand grips of spears and swords. I would be able to show more but a shoulder injury pushed my plans back for awhile. Im determined to make myself a full phalanx  lol

Offline Muzfish4

  • Mad Scientist
  • Posts: 909
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2021, 02:14:19 AM »
Thanks for the very considered reply.

All the best with recovery from your injury and I do look forward to seeing the next tranche of Talos.

Offline sgzleada71

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 299
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2021, 07:05:04 AM »
Yeah, Thanks Captain Harlock.   Great to hear you'll sculpt more and offer bigger sets. It's definitely on my wish list to pick up a set.   My understanding re plastic sprues it that there is quite a heavy initial outlay for the setup costs but once done the cost per sprue to produce is low.  But I understand you  need to sell ~  2000 boxes of say 30 figures to break even.  Depends on many factors obviously.  Anyhow I'll look forward to picking up a bigger set of your guys whatever format they appear in.  :)   

Offline Tonhel

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  • Posts: 488
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2021, 07:29:54 AM »
Hello Yannis,

Hopefully everything will be fine with your shoulder!


Your next batch sounds perfect! :-*

Offline sgzleada71

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 299
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2021, 12:51:49 PM »
Just curious, do you sculpt as " 3 ups"    or at the actual 1:56 scale ? 

Offline Captain Harlock

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 472
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2021, 03:21:06 PM »
Just curious, do you sculpt as " 3 ups"    or at the actual 1:56 scale ?
No I sculpt in real size. 3ups are used when industrial reproduction is involved, Im sculpting molding and casting everything myself in my home  :D

Offline Jjonas

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  • Posts: 349
  • Ancient Modeler
    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2021, 05:59:32 PM »
No I sculpt in real size. 3ups are used when industrial reproduction is involved, Im sculpting molding and casting everything myself in my home  :D

We can tell! They are on my workbench, love the detail.

Offline sgzleada71

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Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #56 on: February 05, 2021, 06:11:40 AM »
Even more impressive to get that detail at the final 1:56  scale !

Offline Jjonas

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    • Ancient Hellenistic Battles mostly
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #57 on: July 18, 2021, 02:11:35 AM »

Reds


Offline DintheDin

  • Galactic Brain
  • Posts: 5773
Re: [Commercial] TALOS MINIATURES - Updated- New head set
« Reply #58 on: July 18, 2021, 09:25:52 AM »
Outstanding!!!  :-*
Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates. – Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi

Offline Captain Harlock

  • Scientist
  • Posts: 472

 

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