Post-Brexit Shipping (EU<->UK): What's the situation for customers and traders?

[Westfalia Chris]

No politics, please. Do try to keep this focused on proper procedural advice.

I'll lock this thread until tomorrow since there doesn't seem to be any actual new information forthcoming right now.

[Andrew66]

I’ve made a few small orders now all a little bit above the 22euro limit , no customs or vat charges , I’ve made larger orders but only to eu distributers , only a couple of euros extra on UK price , Germany has a good few online retailers , hopefully they will be able to keep a good supply of UK manufacturers in stock

[shandy]

Hi,

just a quick report on the situation from Austria: Today, I received a parcel with miniatures from the UK with a value of £66. I payed charges amounting to 27.50 Euros. This is 37% of the value of the figures.

For me, that means that I will refrain from ordering from the UK as far as possible. If there are things I don't get elsewhere, I will think hard if I really need them. My hobby is going to get poorer in choice and/or much more expensive.

Will this be the end of the "golden age of wargaming"?

[Hammers]

Hi,

just a quick report on the situation from Austria: Today, I received a parcel with miniatures from the UK with a value of £66. I payed charges amounting to 27.50 Euros. This is 37% of the value of the figures.

For me, that means that I will refrain from ordering from the UK as far as possible. If there are things I don't get elsewhere, I will think hard if I really need them. My hobby is going to get poorer in choice and/or much more expensive.

Will this be the end of the "golden age of wargaming"?

I don't think it will. There will be adjustments on all sides in the next year or two. The laws of supply and demand, price elasticity, etcetera, etcetera... What generally happens is that new agile entrepreneurs create new temporary monopolies, be it a local production chain, a clever way to absorb increased costs of import or companies registering in a more beneficial region.

For the consumer (us non UK citiziens with a taste for UK goods) it will mean that we will get less for our hobby money for a while but overtime we to will adjust.

[Grumpy Gnome]

It has taken a package sent by a mate in the UK over two weeks to get to Germany and we still do not have it yet or know if there will be additional costs. Postage was more than what he paid in the past.

The company handling the fulfillment of the Hagglethorn Hollow Kickstarter by Tabletop Troubadour has stated they are experiencing problems with their new depot partners in Germany which is going to cause even further delays.

https://www.shipquest.co.uk/blog/eu-blog-january-27th

At this stage my wife and I are holding off from further purchases from the UK. Considering how much of our hobby is produced by UK companies, I for one feel the “a golden age” of gaming has come to a close but perhaps there will be another in the future. Ending free trade between the UK and the EU was always going to hurt me, which is one reason I was so vocal against Brexit.

Buying from the UK has for me turned into the same kind of headache as buying from the States.

[Wellington]

Don't think the Golden Age is over, but manufactures in England, Scotland and Wales have to find a way how to sell their stuff in the EU withour all this trouble for the customer, otherwise they will loose a lot of money.

It might need a year or more, but I'm sure they will figure it out.

Until then I will order only in NI or from shops in the EU. But because of Brexit panic I have enough stuff to paint for the next 5 years. It might be an opportunity the reduce my lead mountain a little bit. 

[Mammoth miniatures]

The golden age might not be over, but the focus might shift away from the largely cottage industry British scene twoards more EU based producers. Not a bad thing at all, but it might mean we rock dwellers and up with a more insular hobby.

[Ray Rivers]

Anybody have any news about how Foundry is handling all this?

Do they have a EU distributor?

I'd like to buy some paints.

[Mammoth miniatures]

Anybody have any news about how Foundry is handling all this?

Do they have a EU distributor?

I'd like to buy some paints.

they don't seem to have put any info out on their site or facebook page.

[black hat miniatures]

Anybody have any news about how Foundry is handling all this?

Do they have a EU distributor?

I'd like to buy some paints.

They are VAt registered so I assume they will deduct VAT on checkout...

Mike

[Andrew Rae]

They are VAt registered so I assume they will deduct VAT on checkout...

Mike

Doesn't look like it.

[Fighting15s]

They are VAt registered so I assume they will deduct VAT on checkout...

Mike

They charge flat-rate shipping for various world regions and don't deduct the VAT.

[Fighting15s]

I feel at this point it is appropriate to say that:

IF a UK business is VAT-registered AND it removes VAT for Rest of World (ROW) customers in the checkout, THEN the only extra charges anyone is paying are the collection fees for tax, plus any bizarre duty, such as third-country duty, or a commodity tariff that someone in a customs department may have randomly assigned, particularly if the sender specified the wrong TARIC (commodity code). If you're in the EU, you would have paid the VAT and the VAT on the delivery charge anyway: it's just happening at a different point in the process. Your perception of just how much is extra charge is caused by having all those elements charged at a point in the process where it didn't exist before. It's annoying but it doesn't mean your figures are necessarily costing 40% to 50% more.

Some of us are nice UK businesses and remove the VAT for non-UK customers because we take the trouble to get the proof of posting that HMRC needs for us to be able to legally deduct the VAT.

The exceptions are non-VAT-registered UK businesses, where yes, in the EU your wargames products are now costing an extra 20+% depending on your country's standard rate VAT. And VAT-registered UK businesses that do not deduct the VAT because they use some fudge so that the VAT masks some of the extra cost of international deliveries. And VAT-registered UK businesses that do not deduct VAT because they can't be bothered to get the proof of posting for a shipment so they can legally deduct VAT to ROW customers.

So EU customers new to the idea of paying tax on imports from the UK should balance the shock of the charge against how much of it would previously have be paid in a different way.

Pre-Brexit, if you ordered £120 of products from a VAT-registered UK business, you'd have paid £100 plus £20 VAT, plus delivery and the VAT charge on delivery. Let's say delivery is £12, so that would break down as £10 plus £2 VAT. You had no VAT collection fee - Huzzah! Now, you'll pay that business £110, no VAT. But on import you have VAT due on that £110, which may if you're lucky still be only £22 (tough luck, Scandinavian countries, at 25% VAT). But you'll be charged for collecting that VAT. That charge varies, and is particularly hideous if your shipment has come by courier - especially, it seems, if that courier is DPD. Some couriers have just added massive extra charges to cope with collecting VAT: the mail companies by and large haven't. For a mail service such as, say, Sweden's Postnord, the collection fee is SEK75, or roughly £7.50; Deutsche Post charges 6 euros, or roughly £6. Those extra costs? A few extra per cent in the VAT rate and a collection fee largely amounting to 10 euros or less by normal post.

If you really don't want to get rooked by customs collection charges, buy from a UK VAT-registered business that deducts VAT for its RoW customers and that sends its orders by post, not courier. Keep your orders under 22 euros until 1 July, when that exemption disappears, or go large – but not too large, because you don't want your order sent by courier – to dilute the effects of the collection fee across a larger quantity of wargames items. Shop smart and be realistic about what that import charge actually represents compared with before. Perhaps talk to a company you're considering buying from first about their approach to VAT and delivery before ruling out ever buying from the UK again. Or read their FAQS.

[Citizen Sade]

Thanks for posting this. Useful food for thought for us Brits buying from European suppliers too.

[Andrew Rae]

Thanks for posting this. Useful food for thought for us Brits buying from European suppliers too.

ROW (inc EU) to UK e-commerce works very differently. I started a thread on it in this very sub forum.

http://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=129250.0

Btw, top post, Ian.