Wood Elves at the Battle of the Five armies Spears or Warbands

[LouieN]

Hello All,

This is just a thought question related more to DBA/HOTT then any other rule system.  Would you consider the spearmen of the woodland realm "Spearmen" or a "Warband" in for DBA/HOTT unit categories.  My friend made a convincing argument for making them warbands. This was based primary on the description of the battle where they charged at the enemy with great fury.  Also the lack of disadvantage in woods is a major point.  I still have a hard time thinking of Tolkien elves as anything but disciplined armies with centuries of experience.

Any opinions. 

"The elves were the first to charge. Their hatred for the goblins is cold and
bitter. Their spears and swords shone in the gloom with a gleam of chill flame,
so deadly was the wrath of the hands that held them. As soon as the host of their
enemies was dense in the valley, they sent against it a shower of arrows, and
each flickered as it fled as if with stinging fire. Behind the arrows a thousand of
their spearmen leapt down and charged. The yells were deafening. The rocks
were stained black with goblin blood."

Thanks

[Melnibonean]

I agree with your friend. Elves like other folk are not all the same from country to country and hence, they will not always behave the same. They don't have a hive mentality (unless you're playing D&D). They might have centuries of experience but the vast majority of those centuries are not spent under arms. Besides that, the elves in The Hobbit are a forest realm and the defence of their home requires different tactics. Big phalanxes don't work in the woods so they don't fight like that so they've devised a more flexible fighting style. Such as a warband.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Elves are something of an enigma.  If we look at the First Age Noldor we see that they can form disciplined ranks (Turgon's forces at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad) and yet, there are many instances where they charge off madly, get over extended and cut off. 
I tend to think of Elves as having their individual units disciplined but their command structure as inferior leading to break down of discipline and rash acts.
I am not familiar with DBA or HOTT, so I can't comment on these rules systems specifically.

Conversely, the Orcs are, as individual units, not well organised but, in the bigger battles, under the tighter control of Morgoth - even if from afar- they function more cohesively.  In the Third Age we see similar control by Sauron. When the control of Sauron is removed - the breaking of the darkness at the Pelennor Fields - they revert to disorganised, unruly mobs.

I hope this helps.

[Hobgoblin]

If you're fighting the Battle of the Five Armies with HotT, a big consideration is just making the armies distinct from each other. So, assuming that the Orcs are mainly Hordes (two armies, perhaps?) and the wargs Beasts, it makes sense to have Dwarves as Blades, the Elves with lots of Shooters and one other main infantry type, and the Men with some Shooters and a different infantry type to the Elves.

The Lakemen are described as having swords, so the easiest thing would be to go with a few Shooters and lots of Warband (not quite right, perhaps, but they're bigger and less numerous than the Orcs, so it fits) and the Elves as Shooters and Spears. But there would be nothing wrong with giving the Elves either just a different ratio of Warband and Shooters to the Men (e.g. 8 Shooters and 4 Warband versus 8 Warband and 4 Shooters for the Men) or giving them a mix of Shooters, Warbands and Spears. You could even make the Elf army entirely Shooters (who are pretty powerful in melee) and assume that each element represents a mix of archers, spearmen and swordsmen.

Overall, I'd focus on having differentiated armies rather than strict fidelity to the book.

[Melnibonean]

Elves are something of an enigma.  If we look at the First Age Noldor we see that they can form disciplined ranks (Turgon's forces at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad) and yet, there are many instances where they charge off madly, get over extended and cut off. 

And Tolkein make a definite statement that the Noldor fight in phalanx formations. This is very different to the ambush tactics used by the Green Elves of Ossiriand.

[Cacique Caribe]

Conversely, the Orcs are, as individual units, not well organised but, in the bigger battles, under the tighter control of Morgoth - even if from afar- they function more cohesively.  In the Third Age we see similar control by Sauron. When the control of Sauron is removed - the breaking of the darkness at the Pelennor Fields - they revert to disorganised, unruly mobs.
I hope this helps.

It’s all about the whipl:



Dan

[LouieN]

I appreciate the thoughts.  Thank you