Large Skirmish Rules recommendation needed.

[Sir_Theo]

If you can hunt down a copy, there is a lot to like about God of Battles

[Hobgoblin]

As its representation of Fog of War, and historically there were plenty of battles where units would sit around on the side-lines and slink off having done nothing the whole battle when people started falling over in the bloody fashion they tend too. I think it works fine, and have enjoyed the games of Lion Rampant and Pikemans Lament I have played.

I'd agree with this. I've played Lion and Dragon Rampant a lot and have always had fun. The sole poor experience I've had with the Rampant series was when playing the fan-made 'hack' Xenos Rampant, which allows automatic activations for the sci-fi troop types it introduces but not for 'traditional' units from Dragon Rampant. I'd thoughtlessly composed one of four sides entirely from DR melee troops, and that player rolled three or four turn-ending failures in a row. We just gave him some automatic move actions and the problem was solved; Xenos Rampant worked very well otherwise.

For conventional Dragon Rampant, I've always found the failures to even out over the course of a game, especially in two-player games. They make things unpredictable, and there's plenty of fun to be had in the frustration (yours and others'). And the short turns that result help move the game along. Also, many unit types have the Wild Charge rule, so once the two sides close, there are quite a few automatic free actions (a failure to Wild Charge doesn't end the turn). Overall, I'd say it's good to have a game in which the best-laid plans gang aft aglae.

Dragon Rampant's also a hugely flexible ruleset. You can stat up pretty much anything very easily, and you can get it onto the table very quickly after deciding to play, which is a huge plus in my book.

As Elbows says, the game is very cheap. You can also find some useful ideas for variants in The Men Who Would Be Kings by the same author. That game does things slightly differently (individual casualties affecting unit strength, for example), so it provides lots of ideas for cross-fertilisation. And it has a solo-play engine too.

[pixelgeek]

Dragon Rampant's also a hugely flexible ruleset. You can stat up pretty much anything very easily, and you can get it onto the table very quickly after deciding to play, which is a huge plus in my book.

I didn't really find it very flexible. Most of the units all turn out to be pretty much the same since they are all based on  the same template and there is only so much you can do to the unit to differentiate it.

I understand the fog of war aspect of the activation system and it works in Lion Rampant. But it is not uncommon for you to fail to activate anything in a round and I don't think that most people come into a fantasy game expecting their army to just stand around and look at their feet.

(As an aside you often can't activate all of your units in Saga. Especially in Age of Magic. Especially as the game goes on and you lose dice as units get eliminated or reduced)

[has.been]

I too like Lion/Dragon rampant (& variants)
Could be worth having a look at the Fistful of Lead Big battles set of rules.
We have had lots of fun with their rules.

[AdmiralAndy]

You can get an STD for free but I wouldn't recommend that either.

Trolls under bridges happily shout out all day long too, doesn't mean I recommend hearing what they say.

Having read your review I get you don't like the DR game. I would hope anyone else posting in this thread has also read it too see the context of discussion between the OP and yourself.

As 3 or 4 of us have said why we consider DR a positive choice, perhaps you would rather more constructively clarify why you feel WoE is a better choice to match the OPs choice for a game than all the other rule sets.

[AdmiralAndy]

If you can hunt down a copy, there is a lot to like about God of Battles

As this isn't a title I've heard about, is there a review you can point too, or advise an overview of its strong points.

[AdmiralAndy]

I too like Lion/Dragon rampant (& variants)
Could be worth having a look at the Fistful of Lead Big battles set of rules.
We have had lots of fun with their rules.

I had thought about mentioning this one, but I don't believe the Fantasy Version with its 3 books was ready for release yet. Could you play a game with just Big Battles and the Core Rules?

[Sir_Theo]

As this isn't a title I've heard about, is there a review you can point too, or advise an overview of its strong points.

Sorry, That would be helpful!

It was a set produced by Foundry and written by Jake Thornton as a way to use their fantasy range, although ita easy enough to use the various lists as a wide range of fantasy archetypes. Its a very attractive hardback book with a good, streamlined set of mechanics.

https://meeples.wordpress.com/2013/08/01/review-god-of-battles/
https://thelostcityofcarcosa.com/2012/10/03/god-of-battles-a-rules-review/

As far as I know this out of production. But you may be able to hunt down a copy.

[pixelgeek]

Trolls under bridges happily shout out all day long too, doesn't mean I recommend hearing what they say.

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out the ridiculous nature of suggesting a ruleset because it is cheap.

FFoL doesn't really have anything like a magic system so depending on what the OPs requirements are it may or may not work. It certainly might be a good place to start since it would be easy enough to stat up monsters

Bigger Battles does have some stats for fantasy races in the back of the book

[Hobgoblin]

I didn't really find it very flexible. Most of the units all turn out to be pretty much the same since they are all based on  the same template and there is only so much you can do to the unit to differentiate it.

Aren't the templates quite dissimilar to each other - more so than in most games?

I'd say that a real strength of the Rampant system is that units behave in a very different way from each other. Heavy Foot and Bellicose Foot, for example, are very different animals, and the same goes for monsters or heroes based on them. The upgrades in Dragon Rampant provide a lot of scope for differentiating creatures further. So a troll that's based on Bellicose Foot with Mystical Armour (i.e. regeneration) and Exploder will play very differently from an ogre that's based on Elite Foot with Fear and Venomous.

That's more differentiation than you'd get between an ogre and troll in most games; the difference, i think, is that you can see "under the hood" with Dragon Rampant.

I understand the fog of war aspect of the activation system and it works in Lion Rampant. But it is not uncommon for you to fail to activate anything in a round and I don't think that most people come into a fantasy game expecting their army to just stand around and look at their feet.

I don't follow this - why does it work in Lion Rampant and not in Dragon Rampant? We used Lion Rampant for fantasy battles before Dragon Rampant came out; they're essentially the same game, but with a lot more variety in Dragon Rampant through its wider range of upgrades.

In answer to the original post, it's worth noting that Dragon Rampant has 13 basic troop types, each of which has some upgrades or downgrades and each of which can be modified by some of the 18 or so special rules. So there's a wide combination of possibilities for any potential troop type.

But - more importantly - the Dragon Rampant troop types are much more differentiated than in most comparable games, with a big emphasis on their battlefield role. In Oathmark (which is a great game too), the differences between, say, a linebreaker and a warrior are much slighter than between DR's Bellicose Foot and Heavy Foot. In Oathmark, there are incremental differences (1 pip on a d10, say), but Bellicose Foot hit twice as hard as Heavy Foot when on the attack, can counter-charge attackers, move faster and ignore rough terrain. On the other hand, they're much worse on the defensive, can't benefit from formations and die much more easily thanks to poorer armour. So they function very differently on the battlefield, which encourages you to use them in very different roles.

Another strength of Dragon Rampant is the way in which the Wild Charge and terrain rules interact. Your Ravenous Horde (the worst troop type) of ill-equipped goblins might have a real chance against the elven knights if they can lure them into the marshes or the wood - and the rules make that much more likely to happen than in most games.

[Elbows]

You can get an STD for free but I wouldn't recommend that either.

Tell us how you really feel.

[Sir Barnaby Hammond-Rye]

Try Armatura:

https://lohwand.blogspot.com/2021/01/lohwand-armatura-ver-6.html

[Blackwolf]

Dragon Rampant is my favourite fantasy rulebook, outstanding  little game,and very adaptable 

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I had made a reply but must have forgotten to hit post before closing down the computer - so I make a much smaller comment now.
Mainly, I would echo Hobgoblin and say I find the troop types are more varied than most other rule sets and are easy to customise.

So far, DR is the fantasy war game I have enjoyed the most.  I mainly play solo and find it is very good for this purpose.

I have tried Warlords of Erehwon.  There are many aspects I like, but I find there is a lot to keep track of if solo gaming.  For a normal two player game things should be easier.  I will give Warlords another go, but I still prefer DR for now.

[AdmiralAndy]

I'm not trolling. I'm pointing out the ridiculous nature of suggesting a ruleset because it is cheap.

As most wargamers have finite disposable income, financial cost can be a barrier to entry to trying a ruleset or not and can factor in the decision to try a ruleset and is a valid point to put forward for consideration.

Also for myself I feel to denigrate someones comment by comparison to an STD is trolling and is the kind of toxic comment that is not helpful and this forum is largely free off. Continually beating down on a ruleset you don't like does not help the OP to decide what they should try.

I get that if DR was given away as a free PDF you'd still not recommend it, but I wonder if WoE had been the ruleset mentioned how differently you might have answered.

I respect that your passion for wargaming the OP topic is different to my own and others and embrace that, as without differing views there'd be no inovation and we'd still be playing Chainmail with the fantasy addon, or Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Please allow the same courtesy for the rest of us whose passion for hobby is of a different sort.

All rulesets have strengths and weaknesses, there is no perfect system, just rules and games we enjoy and those we don't, I wouldn't want to unduly block someone from trying something as I might be blocking there passion for hobby however well intentioned I thought I was being.

So lets leave to rest any further discussion on this please.