Game mats, rivers and mountains advice

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I can never quite decide how I want to proceed with terrain.  I have terrain boards (home made) and a Killing Fields fur mat.  I play a mix of fantasy skirmish 28mm and big battle 28mm (but might dip my toe into 15mm Ancients - how I started wargaming 30+ years ago).

The first issue is plonk terrain on top of the mats or place terrain under?  Or a mixture of both?  The plonk terrain approach means I can use the boards (perhaps better for 15mm battles) and the fur (28mm skirmish).

For some interesting bits on the table I have often wondered about using Martin Welberg mats cut into patches of terrain.  As these seem to be made of tufts can miniatures stand on this well or will it look like they are balancing on top of the grass rather than walking through it?
https://www.themodeltreeshop.co.uk/rough-meadow-mat-p320.html#

For my skirmish games I want some decent rivers - possibly wide enough to have characters able to really interact with it eg jump from rock to rock and battle in mid river.  This type of river might need to be about 12cm wide to do this.  This is probably beyond my skills - is there anyone who makes this type of terrain.

I also want some sort of mountain.  I was impressed with the Dwarven Forge mountain kickstarter but this is horribly expensive.  The thing I liked was it was playable terrain - plenty of places where figures could properly stand on the rocks/inclines.  Again, is there anyone who makes this type of terrain or a simple way of building this without spending a fortune on tools and equipment?

The final issue is the Killing Fields mat.  I saw the thread from November about these mats.  There was a comment about dyeing the mat.  I find the mat a bit dull and too uniform.  What is the best method for dyeing this type of mat?

[Elbows]

If you're looking for a very playable mountain...you'll be sacrificing the "sexy" look of more natural ones, but this has been an issue with wargaming since it began.  I vastly prefer high density upholstery foam - cut and shaped in various heights which can be stacked to create a variety of hills/mountains which are still playable.



If your mat is not neoprene, it may even be able to cover hills made from this material, though you'd have more slopes/model slippage.  Never seen a Killing Fields mat, so I can't help too much with that.

PS: With regard to rivers...while not very sexy, I use fake nautical leather (the kind of material you make cover boat seats in) for lakes/rivers, etc.  It's quick-n-dirty, but I got two yards of it and cut two rivers and left the rest to do lake-side/shore stuff.



It has a slightly satin sheen and looks "okay" as water.

[warrenpeace]

Look at Cigar Box mats. They look great. They have lots of pre-printed roads, streams, fields, and woods, depending on which mats you pick.

Dense pink insulation foam works well for making hills. It's light and easy to cut. They look good when flocked and painted.

For the type of streams and rivers you want to see, I'd suggest a thin hard base material. Build up banks. Glue rocks where you want them. Paint colors you want to see in the stream or river bed. Then paint clear varnish over the color to make it look liquid.

Lastly, I'd recommend against collecting multiple scales. Each different scale of figure calls for different scale trees, roads, buildings, hills, rivers, bridges, etc. Each scale requires more terrain and space to store it. Since you already have some 28mm, but you are interested in ancients, I'd suggest looking at 28mm ancients. Those also have the advantage of being easier to see as one's eyes get older.

[robh]

The best way to do wide rivers is to use a gloss/semi gloss sheet direct onto the flat tabletop and leave it visible between the terrain. Just make a couple of thin riverbank ends to match your terrain tiles.

[Charlie_]

For some interesting bits on the table I have often wondered about using Martin Welberg mats cut into patches of terrain.  As these seem to be made of tufts can miniatures stand on this well or will it look like they are balancing on top of the grass rather than walking through it?
https://www.themodeltreeshop.co.uk/rough-meadow-mat-p320.html#

I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has used these Martin Welberg mats. I've been wondering how to utilise them myself as they look fantastic! Though i think placing models on them would be a real issue (especially large units rather than individual bases).

Two things i've considered:

1 - cut them up into rough shapes and scatter them around. When they get in the way of placing a unit, just shift them to the side. HOWEVER I don't know how good this would actually look. Would they stay flat? Would the edges be too obvious, or perhaps even curl up?

2 - Use them in the neat rectangle shape they come in, with fences or walls around them for some sort of enclosed meadow. Either with separate fences/walls, or built together as one piece for a more solid, rigid thing. And if possible, the mat won't be fixed down. That way if you want to put a great big unit in the meadow and find the tufts are in the way, just lift the mat out! This is what i'm probably going to do one day.

[SotF]

For rivers, I've been using the Pegasus Hobbies ones...originally because when I made several pieces of terrain, they were designed around them due to the local shop having several in the terrain stockpile for people who come in and play, then I bought several of my own and converted a few for other pieces than the standard set.

[FierceKitty]

Tiny Wargames still get my vote. Lovely mats.

[jon_1066]

Major General Tremorden had some great terrain ideas including mountains:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080705040111/http://zeitcom.com/majgen/24mtsc.html

His whole site is well worth a gander.

He also has ideas for water and rivers too.

[Malebolgia]

Gale Force 9 has excellent rivers:
https://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13336

They come painted (and quite nice too). The picture shows grassy shores, but you get this in baggies. Excellent if your table has a different colour, so you can add your own grass/moss/tufts/whatever on the shores to get it to match. Best thing about these pieces is that they are made from some kind of thick, hard rubber. This is flexible, but very rigid. So it won't break easily and will form to some shallow slopes.
GF9 also has excellent hills by the way.

[Severian]

One option that might be worth exploring is vacuform plastic moulded terrain. It's fairly cheap and light, and can be painted & flocked quite easily.

These guys for example have a fair range of good-sized hills & ruins (and also river sections):

http://www.amera.co.uk/product.php?range=f

[Matty]

Major General Tremorden had some great terrain ideas including mountains:

https://web.archive.org/web/20080705040111/http://zeitcom.com/majgen/24mtsc.html[/url

I was just going to suggest that page for the mountain.  I'm thinking you could take the basic concept and pretty it up a bit with texture and flock and have it look good from every angle rather than just exposed card board on the back side.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

One option that might be worth exploring is vacuform plastic moulded terrain. It's fairly cheap and light, and can be painted & flocked quite easily.

These guys for example have a fair range of good-sized hills & ruins (and also river sections):

http://www.amera.co.uk/product.php?range=f

When I visited by sister-in-law in the Netherlands a couple of years ago there was a garden centre that was converted into a mega-Christmas shop.  They had moulded plastic scenery for, I presume, train sets.   They had some quite large mountains - easily 20cm high.  I would love to find something like this.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

thanks for the replies.  I suppose I have two differing aims.  For big battles utilitarian terrain seems the best option.  For skirmishes I want moody, kick-arse terrain  Something that looks fabulous and help set the scene but can be played on. 
I really don't think I will ever get around to producing masses of my own terrain but will probably have to make some and buy the vast bulk. 
I have found some interesting items on ETSY and Aliexpress.  I have never bought from either.  Are they reliable?

[fred]

I’ve had no problems with Etsy and Aliexpress. Both are platforms for sellers, so a bit like eBay but without the bidding, so it does depend on the individual seller.

With Aliexpress, be aware that most stuff is coming from China so will take some weeks to get to you (and that was pre-Covid)

[Malebolgia]

And note that stuff you receive from Ali can be WAY inferior in quality than what they show online.