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Author Topic: Lasalle 2nd edition  (Read 4930 times)

Andrew_McGuire

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Lasalle 2nd edition
« on: February 15, 2021, 04:39:47 PM »
Iíve just learned of the forthcoming (20 February) publication of a new edition of the above rules by Sam Mustafa and immediately headed to his site, honour.com, for enlightenment, which was not forthcoming. Another way of putting this would be to admit that my intel-gathering and digital skills are sadly wanting.

Iím primarily interested in changes to the original rules, which I own. All Iíve been able to determine from the above site is that the cover image is unchanged (but then I suppose suitably striking images of the eponymous beau sabreur are not especially abundant).

Does anyone know anything about the changes to the rules, or have a link to the relevant information?

Offline black hat miniatures

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2021, 04:47:07 PM »
There are some comments on the rules on this TMP thread...

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=545804

Mike
Mike Lewis

Black Hat Miniatures
www.blackhat.co.uk

Offline dallascowboy43

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2021, 04:52:34 PM »
On the honour site there are some free downloads including a rules summary and chapters on basing and army lists.
Clive

Andrew_McGuire

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2021, 05:23:34 PM »
Thanks you to both respondents. Iíve only skimmed the TMP coverage, but in short: ďItís a whole new gameĒ. No excuse not to buy it, then.

Edit: Which I have now done.

Further edit: I have now discovered that the place to find the authorís description of the changes in the new edition is not honour.com (which appears to be the web store) but sammustafa.com. Said information appears to have been uploaded today.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 07:30:28 PM by Andrew_McGuire »

Offline olicana

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 05:44:03 PM »
I like the sound of 'mo' but, I'm reading mixed reviews: Some say the game is totally different from L1, and others that it's so based on L1 that 'mo' won't change anyone's mind about the Lasalle series - You'll still love Lasalle, or you'll still not.

Some of my friends loved L1, and I bought it on their recommendation. I, along with some of my other friends, didn't love it: some of them refuse to play it again, point blank, and I'm happy not to put on Lasalle games to keep them playing at my place.

Hmmmm. I'm going to have to play test it before I buy it.




Andrew_McGuire

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 06:22:07 PM »
I read the comments on the TMP thread which was the first time Iíd seen any negative statements about Lasalle. In spite of having owned the original set for quite a few years - I bought a used copy from a seller in the US as it was OOP by this time - Iíve done no more than read it, or most of it, anyway. I nevertheless had the impression it was highly regarded, and felt the arrival of 2nd edition must be a notable event.

Now, as is so often the case, the doubts emerge. In any event, my copy appears to be on its way.

The extent of the changes described by the author is somewhat puzzling, however. With elements imported from Blucher and Maurice together with the totally revamped game structure it does seem fair to regard it as indeed ďa whole new gameĒ, which appears to beg the question, why - and for that matter, how - is it then still Lasalle? I can only assume the author does not wish to have two distinct Napoleonic games at the same level of command and tactical detail in his inventory, even if one is OOP.

However Blucher, the grand tactical game, is not vastly removed from the earlier Grande Armee, as far as I am aware, in its command perspective at least, though it is clearly regarded as an entirely different game. (I have not seen GA so cannot comment with authority on its differences with Blucher, though I am aware it does not share that gameís employment of cards to represent battalions; indeed I believe it represents a battalion on a 3Ē square, about half the size of the equivalent unit in the newer game).

One can only hope the quality of the new rules will make these questions of passing interest.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 08:10:21 PM by Andrew_McGuire »

Offline olicana

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2021, 10:10:09 AM »
I've played Blucher, refighting Eylau, and really enjoyed it. For that level of gaming I thought the rules were excellent - going for feel rather than granular detail.

The games I've played of Lassalle, approximately six, were a mixed bag. The first couple of games seemed to go reasonably well: easy to pick up, etc. However, after the fourth game I could already tell that interest in them was flagging. I thought, as rules go, the games went okay. Nothing seemed too outlandish as far as results, etc. Our problem with them was a distinct lack of any tension: There were no big surprises and everything was a more or less predictable series of measures and countermeasures.

We play games using Piquet, TtS, and similar rules a lot - games stacked with chance, tension and surprises. Perhaps the 'mo' thing adds some of that to Lasalle. If it does, Lasalle 2 might get some interest here. I hope it does work for the better, if it does I'll buy a copy. But, to steal a line from Pulp Fiction, "...we'd have to be talkin' about one charmin' motherf***in' pig."

Offline kerpob

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2021, 04:04:18 PM »
Our group played Lasalle once. We hated it - I cannot remember the specifics except for cavalry rules were especially disliked. There is therefore not much eagerness in our group to get these new rules. We did enjoy some of Sam Mustafa's other rules - Maurice was a big hit. Blucher enjoyable if a bit abstract. Rommel was too abstract.

Offline SteveBurt

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 07:24:35 PM »
The new version is a completely different game; totally different command and combat mechanics, and a very elegant way of representing skirmishers. I guess he kept the name as it's set at the same level (you command  division or so). Not had a chance to play it yet but will report back when I do. v1 was Ok but there were some gamey tactics which spoiled it.

Offline olicana

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2021, 11:31:46 PM »
Quote
and a very elegant way of representing skirmishers

Can someone tell me what this is?

L1 had a very simplistic, elegant way of representing skirmishers. Has this changed, or is it still the same 'more / less' rule.

Andrew_McGuire

  • Guest
Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2021, 12:02:34 AM »
I only know what Iíve read at sammustafa.com/Lasalle.

In the section headed Whatís New in the Second Edition there is a summary of the new skirmishing rules. Essentially, each turn the players determine which sideís skirmishing screen has the advantage; this affects the momentum for that turn, among other things. Iíll let you read the rest yourself.

I donít know whether anyone outside the US has received the rules yet. According to the Caliver Books website,  copies were due to be despatched on 17 February. I only mention this because I received another book from them today which I ordered at the same time; an accompanying note states that part of my order - i.e. Lasalle - is out of stock. I do not know whether it has now been posted.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2021, 12:07:02 AM by Andrew_McGuire »

Offline SteveBurt

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2021, 02:54:13 PM »
My copy of Lasalle 2 came two days ago.
The skirmisher screen lets you seize the initiative by giving you a momentum advantage, and in the advanced rules there is more stuff you can do (like reinforcing it by breaking formed units down into skirmishes). Nothing like the v1 system where the skirmishes affected each unit; the new system is more like the 'brigade screen' rules in General d'Armee (but much simpler)

Offline SteveBurt

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2021, 02:47:06 PM »
Iíve now had a chance to play through the introductory scenario, using the basic rules only (so just one intervention order, and skirmishes affect only momentum).  This is a very interesting and innovative set of rules. The big thing is that the various phases of play (move/charge, volley, bombard, rally, change formation) happen in an order chosen by the players. Choosing a phase costs variable amounts of momentum, and if you do things near the enemy, the initiative switches (so long as they have momentum left) and they get to do stuff. This makes for a lot of interesting decision making. How much momentum you get depends on the size of your force, whether you use your general for that purpose, and how much you win the skirmisher battle by. Moves are very generous when not near the enemy, but short when near, so approach marches and reserve moves are fast, but you canít charge without getting within 4 base-widths which means the opponent will always be able to get a shot, or charge you, or possibly disengage, assuming they have kept some spare momentum back. Iíll need to play a bit more to get the hang of it, not because the rules are complex, but because the decisions are not always obvious. I may try the Quatre Bras scenario in the rule book next and use the advanced rules in which skirmisher advantage allows you to directly impede and snipe at enemy units rather than just giving you momentum.
For anyone who hated Lasalle v1, this is nothing like those rules at all. Canít directly compare to any other set I can think of. Very interesting indeed.

Andrew_McGuire

  • Guest
Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2021, 03:22:10 PM »
That sounds extremely promising, the kind of innovative mechanics that one can really get excited about. I can almost feel the battlefield tension now and canít wait to play.

But Iím going to have to, because my copy still hasnít arrived.

Battlefield tension: thatís what itís all about, no?

Where is Grouchy? What is that column in the distance? Grouchy, at last! No....

Never mind Grouchy, where is Lasalle? Ah, the post , it is......merde!
« Last Edit: February 25, 2021, 11:19:33 PM by Andrew_McGuire »

Offline Antonio J Carrasco

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Re: Lasalle 2nd edition
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2021, 09:45:58 PM »

Never mind Grouchy, where is Lasalle? Ah, the post , it is......merde!

And this is one of the reasons why I buy digital editions only: no shipping costs, no delays and no space being occupied in my shelves!  lol

No, seriously, of late I only buy a ruleset if I can get it in digital format. Otherwise, I pass. Luckily, Lasalle 2nd Edition is available as PDF.

I was about to try it this Sunday, but my friend cannot come -he has gone down with Covid, fortunately only mild case- so we will play an Advanced Squad Leader scenario through Vassal.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 06:27:27 AM by Antonio J Carrasco »

 

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