Painting Block: 15mm Kappadokians, Rhaetians, and Galatians

[Richard in Sachsen]

Greetings All!

I'm finally back after a long hiatus. Shortly after my last post, I received a letter from the graduate academy inquiring whether I planned to finish my dissertation sometime during the last decade... So, I finished my dissertation and defended it in January. It's somewhat relevant, a Dr. phil. in English Medieval Studies but, much of my focus was Germanic heroic epic and 5th century peoples and how Tolkien used them in his contemporary work.

In any case, I've been jonesing to get back to painting but now I seem to have a bit of a painting block. There are three cases where I can't seem to find any good information, so I'm posting this and fishing for ideas.

1. My Kappadokien noble cavalry for my Pontic army. I'm thinking bronze armour for the horses but what about clothing? Patterns on trousers and shirts? Furthermore, what is with my smaller Kappadokien army proper? Infantry, light cavalry, etc.? Any ideas?

2. My FoG battle group of Rhaetians. Another unit/people that I can't find any information on. Right now I have the command in Roman kit but leaning towards a generic Celtic look for shields and textiles. But... how do I differentiate from my Gauls? Since I have specific Rhaetian figures (Baueda), I'd like to have a specific paint pattern if they fight Gauls on the side of the Romans.

3. Galatians - a similar problem as above. I can't remember who the manufacturer is now, but the figures are basically Celts in Greek kit (Xyston?). So, tartans & such? What about shields? Still a motley collection of Celtic patterns (which is quite a job for five, large FoG battlegroups) or more of Greek Theuropoi-like, uniform solid colors per battle group (much easier)?

Any way, I realised that the painting blocks have also attributed to half-finished armies sitting in the lead pile. If I can get over these blocks, perhaps I can finish the damn things!

Thanks, any and all advice welcome and appreciated.

[Diablo Jon]

Re Kappadokians. My understanding is their royal family were descendants of Persian Nobility and they kept up Persian religious practices long after the fall of the Achaemenid Empire. For my successor Kappadokians I leant heavily on Achaemenid Persian dress styles as inspiration for colours and patterns on my troops

[Richard in Sachsen]

Those are great, they really 'pop'. I suspected as much, so perhaps going with the Persian look is the best way to go about it. That may apply to Armenians as well, I suppose. Thanks for the input, that helps quite a bit.

[SJWi]

Richard, I’d agree on comments about the Cappadocians, albeit noting that Cappadocia wasn’t part of the “Persian heartland”. From what I know both Rhaetians and Galatians had a Celtic heritage so ordinary Celts/Gauls work well for both. However over time they did seem to adopt weapons and equipment from their bigger neighbours eg Successors/Greeks in the case of the Galatians.

[FierceKitty]

Tolkein came a millennium and a half later; hardly contemporary!

[Richard in Sachsen]

right, contemporary, meaning now as a synonym for modern fiction

[Richard in Sachsen]

@ SJWi. Thank you, I just went out to the workshop to look at the Galatians again and they're in Greek equipment. I'm wondering about the shields, though. They are oval with a raised spine and hour-glass boss over it, so I'm wondering if they should be Greek shields with Celtic designs or perhaps more of a Greek solid color. And if so, would they be individual shields or would the entire battlegroup have the same color like a regiment?

The Rhaetians have a similar problem in trying to differentiate between them and Gauls with a painting scheme.

[Diablo Jon]

I'm thinking that the Galatians use of thureos shield was the reason it spread to become common equipment among latter Hellenistic armies rather than the other away around. I know the WRG Armies of the Macedonian and Punic Wars shows later era Kappadokian  infantry using Galatian swords and shields. On the other hand it wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility they re-cycled war booty (I'm pretty sure I've read the Galatians put some captured Seleucid scythed chariots back in the field)  so the odd Greek helmet or shield might work to add a bit of character.

Also not sitting here with any reference books but I seem to recall Galatians kept fighting naked long after other Celtic peoples had sensibly started fighting clothes so maybe use all naked or at least some naked miniatures for Galatians.

Another thought I've just had is maybe check out sources on Ptolemaic armies or Herod the great I believe both employed Galatians as guardsmen so they might give you some ideas on what Hellenised Celts could look like.

[Richard in Sachsen]

Thank you Jon,

I remember seeing a picture set in Egypt of a Galatian mercenary who was dressed all in blue and his shield was a solid blue. But I can't remember where, either a Osprey-like book or a TWC picture of their game. So, I thought I'd ask here since there are so many experts. But I will go back and check on the Ptolemies, great idea!

[SJWi]

I think the picture you remember may be from the Montevert book “Armies of Ptolemaic Egypt”.

[Richard in Sachsen]

@SJWi

I found the picture I was thinking of, not the computer generated uniforms of the French book (I have that here somewhere). I finally found this one again and it looks like three Galatians walking in a procession or marching in Egypt (there is an obelisk in the background as well as what looks like Nubian javelin men marching behind them). They have solid white shields, not blue, except the one Galatian in the foreground has two diagonal blue stripes on his shield. They are naked except for their blue cloaks and the third Galatian has a bronze helmet.

If anyone knows this picture and it's accuracy, that may be the direction I head in. At least it may be simpler than trying to think of individual shield patterns for five battle groups of twelve heavy infantry stands each. Not all of my Galatians are naked, so perhaps some tartans? On the other hand, they're in Anatolia, the Middle East, and Africa ... so would they perhaps be wearing linen instead of wool?

It's difficult finding these details needed to plan painting and a pallet, so thanks everyone for your assistance and advice.

[Diablo Jon]

I'm pretty sure that picture is from the Monvert armies of Ptolemaic Egypt book. Looks like at least one gamer used that picture for inspiration here and it's a good look

https://bigredbat.blogspot.com/search/label/Galatians

Also just found that Jeff Jonas on Ancient battles also went for the blue look on his Galatians to Be honest if its good enough for Jeff (who is a very knowledgeable guy) it would be good enough for me.

https://www.ancientbattles.com/Galatians/galatian_warriors_AB_01.html

[Richard in Sachsen]

Thank you Jon, that looks good.

Thanks every body

[Jjonas]

Aventine makes some Galatian mercenaries that look like really tough hombres:
https://ancientbattles.com/antiochus_ptolemy/Antiochus_Basileus_002.jpg

I like the style of their Galatian spearmen and mailed warriors:
https://aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/53_166/products_id/837

I could see units of these with Roman style shields and pila as later Galatian legions that fought against the Pontics.
https://aventineminiatures.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/53_166/products_id/843

As for Kappadokians they are often depicted as half barded as construed at Gaugamela as extra heavy cavalry with long spears added by Darius. These then were part of  Eumenes' agema cavalry. I would expect them to stay armored for the Pontic wars. Not sure if the parapluridia leg skirts/armored saddle would still be in vogue, but that's due to lack of reference.

This old 25mm Naismith figure on a Ral Partha horse is how I envisioned them at Gaugamela, and later as xystophoroi.

https://ancientbattles.com/antigonidarmy/mac11.jpg

I'm currently redoing this unit in larger figures, a mix of Thistle & Rose (formerly Vendel), Casting Room, and Newline Designs 28mm figures. For the Persians at least some would most likely have conical helmets. No real guess if the soft caps were still worn by Pontic times. I would expect similar colors and patterns to Achaemenid outfits, since Cappadocians seemed to stick to the old time religions.

https://deadliestblogpage.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/cappadocian-cavalry.jpg


I also used Old Glory principes as later Galatian legions with clipped plumes as they gave a look of old and new:

[trev]

Hi Richard,

Good luck finishing stuff off I'm trying to do the same with some armies that have been half done for years.

Unfortunately we don't know what the Cappadocian troops really looked like but we can make some educated guesses.  First, the Cappadocia horsemen, whether part of the kingdom of Pontus (Cappadocia Pontica) or Greater Cappadocia, were probably similar.  Maybe a bit more Hellensied nearer the coast.

Here's a couple of quotes on the Pontic army. 

This first quote is the early Pontic army from the 1st Mithridatic war.

Plutarch, Sulla 16
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0064:chapter=16

The air could not contain the shouts and clamour of so many nations forming in array. At the same time also the pomp and ostentation of their costly equipment was not without its effect and use in exciting terror; indeed, the flashing of their armour, which was magnificently embellished with gold and silver, [3] and the rich colours of their Median and Scythian vests, intermingled with bronze and flashing steel, presented a flaming and fearful sight as they surged to and fro

I think vests could be translated as coats or just clothes instead but certainly this gives an evocative description to aim for. Mithridates had Scythian/Sarmatian troops from his northern territories and allies, so the troops wearing 'Median' vests are probably the unhellensied Pontic/Cappadocian troops.

Iranian influence was strong in Anatolia under the Achaemenids with both settlers and cultural influence and I've seen quotes that Strabo described Cappadocia as "almost a living part of Persia". Although I'm not sure of the source for the quote as it isn't from the Cappadocian chapter in his Geography.

https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/12A*.html

If Cappadocia was still recognisably Iranian in the late 1st C BC it was probably just as 'Median' (or maybe Parthian/Steppe Iranian) in Mithridates day.  As such I would use Persian/Parthian styles for the Cappadocian troops.

Beyond that we don't really know if they had short or long spears, carried shields, wore heavy armour or had the large leg armours.  My guess would probably be that they followed late Achaemenid practice and ranged from Jeff's heavily armoured image to Jon's lighter version and probably everything in between.

The three ridged Tiara I think only comes from reliefs in Persia centuries earlier, so that might not be typically Cappadocian but it equally might be. 

The Wiki page isn't bad as a summary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Cappadocia#CITEREFRaditsa1983

This second quote is for the later Pontic army of the second war and suggests Mithridates heavily romanised his army after defeat against Sulla.

Plutarch, Lucullus 7
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0046:chapter=7

Mithridates, boastful and pompous at the outset, like most of the Sophists, had first opposed the Romans with forces which were really unsubstantial, though brilliant and ostentatious to look upon. With these he had made a ridiculous fiasco and learned a salutary lesson. When therefore, he thought to go to war the second time, he organized his forces into a genuinely effective armament. [4] He did away with Barbarous hordes from every clime, and all their discordant and threatening cries; he provided no more armour inlaid with gold and set with precious stones, for he saw that these made rich booty for the victors, but gave no strength whatever to their wearers; instead, he had swords forged in the Roman fashion, and heavy shields welded; he collected horses that were well trained rather than richly caparisoned, and a hundred and twenty thousand footmen drilled in the Roman phalanx formation, and sixteen thousand horsemen, not counting the scythe-bearing, four-horse chariots, which were a hundred in number: [5] and further, he put in readiness ships which were not tricked out with gilded canopies, or baths for concubines, and luxurious apartments for women, but which were rather loaded down with armour and missiles and munitions of war.

So a later Pontic army would probably be less flash and more Romanised.

Here's a thread with lots of detail and supposition about the Georgian/Iberian troops for another possibile source of influence
https://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?810607-Old-Georgian-Units-Submod-for-EB-II-2-35A&highlight=old+georgia

And some Causacian Iberian cavalry images from the thread



There's Armenia too but we don't really know what they looked like either.