Looking at Dark Age Welsh!

[Atheling]

I was only talking via email to them a few weeks ago.
I was asking when the full Indian range would be available again.
Currently the chariots and elephants are not available.

Hope everything is ok?

I was just reading this and cannot link to TMC either. I hope Dave is OK? A bit worrying.....

[redrevuk]

Forgot all about that Yahoo Group. Prof Guy Halsall's group if my memory is up to scratch?

Yes indeed, some really well informed and friendly discussion was had.

[Atheling]

Yes indeed, some really well informed and friendly discussion was had.

Yeah, he had another group before After Rome which I was privileged to be a member of for playtesting of the WAB Age of Arthur supplement. Maybe that group was set up by James and Guy added for his expertise?

 'm pretty sure there was another Yahoo group as well as the two I've mentioned but the name escapes me at present. 

[James Morris]

Hi Tim, sorry, bit late to respond to this one on one of my favourite subjects! There’s very little hard evidence for welsh in this period.  I think the thing to do is decide the ‘look’ that you want for your force.  You could just paint the various Saxon figures in slightly different colours and that would be just fine.  My perception is that the Welsh kingdoms were poorer than their English equivalents in this period, so less armour and helmets overall.  I believe that Gerald of Wales mentions moustaches rather than beards, which is reflected in the GB British Kingdoms range.  I like the bare-legged look, although this is hard to do consistently with the current ranges of plastics out there (Wargames Atlantic’s Irish are great, but have many features that I feel are specifically Irish rather than Celtic).  That said, I think that there would be nothing wrong with doing a Welsh force just using GB plastics if you want to.

I’ll see if I’ve got any photos of my various Welsh armies.

[RedRowan]

Dark Age Welsh are such an interesting army but I never found a range I liked. I'm really hoping Victrix have them on the 'To Do' list for their Dark Age range. A set of Welsh that you could also combine and kit bash with their Saxons would be amazing.

Steve

[Tim Haslam]

Thanks James,

So maybe GB plastic generic dark age figures for later armies but if I want earlier stuff, then the GB specific range in metal.

Just throwing a major curve ball into the mix, I’m also now thinking later Welsh going into 13th or 14th century with Longbow and poorly armed cavalry, plus a mix of poor knights.
Maybe 100YW figures but used at a later date?

I’ll be looking at WAB books for a proxy list, possibly War of the Roses list?

[Atheling]

So maybe GB plastic generic dark age figures for later armies but if I want earlier stuff, then the GB specific range in metal.

I would just mix Anglo Saxon miniatures into a Welsh range like James and I mentioned earlier Tim. Unless you want them to look very "welsh" in a wargame manner then go for Soapy's lovely Gripping Beast range. Just my tuppence worth matey

Just throwing a major curve ball into the mix, I’m also now thinking later Welsh going into 13th or 14th century with Longbow and poorly armed cavalry, plus a mix of poor knights.

There would be no appreciable difference really. It's  the same question I have seen asked about the Scots; again, no appreciable difference. Maybe fewer fully kitted out men at arms but that's about it.

I’ll be looking at WAB books for a proxy list, possibly War of the Roses list?

From what I remember it would be fine as long as you didn't take artillery which was not seen in England, Wales or Scotland until the beginnings f the Wars of the Roses. Oh, and avoid full plate armours, they simply didn't exist until the later stages of the 15th CE.

[Tim Haslam]

Cheers old chum.

I was thinking of using the WotR list from Age of Chivalry, because the Yorkist Pretender list is very flexible, and allows a lot more cheap Irish and such.

Which battle was it that never actually took place, it was Welsh rebels bolstered with some French V English, they both camped across a field from each other but never actually came to grips?

[Atheling]

Cheers old chum.

I was thinking of using the WotR list from Age of Chivalry, because the Yorkist Pretender list is very flexible, and allows a lot more cheap Irish and such.

Which battle was it that never actually took place, it was Welsh rebels bolstered with some French V English, they both camped across a field from each other but never actually came to grips?

The name escapes me just now Tim. I do know that it was the follow up to the Battle of Pilleth. Maybe Google Pilleth 1402 and see what arises?

[Tim Haslam]

I know it’s 1405 for the date.
Can’t find a name just yet.

[Atheling]

I know it’s 1405 for the date.
Can’t find a name just yet.

I would just call it the Glyndwr Upising and be done with it 

[Tim Haslam]

It hasn’t got a battle name, I suppose because they actually never got to grips?

It’s an interesting army though, loads of rufty tufty Welsh and some French dudes.

[Bob Murch]

I’m working on Welsh for my 1066 range, currently in a Kickstarter for the Saxon and Norman factions.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1066miniatures/1066-miniatures/description

I’ve gone with what sparse info is available for them in this period and decided on poorer looking warriors in tunics but with bare legs and usually bare feet. As with most of the other sets in the 1066 range, there will be large numbers of head variants so some helmets, captured or otherwise with a few dating back to earlier eras. Their hair was said to be close cropped to avoid getting tangled in underbrush as they often fought from concealment, hit and run style.

Moustaches were more common than beards apparently. The bow will be an early long-bow as that weapon was said to originate in Wales.

The wealthier warriors will have mail but lighter versions than the heavy Norman style hauberk. There will be numerous cavalry as that was also a component in their hit and run style of warfare.   
 
The pictures:  Bleddyn ap Cynfyn

Some warriors, pre-hair or helmet sculpting

[Tim Haslam]

Excellent!
I was looking at your 1066 Kickstarter the other day.
Superb stuff.

So can I back the Welsh?
I’m new to this Kickstarter thing!

[Matakakea]

Pity I can't afford to go into the Kickstarter at present. I will have to add some of those Welsh to my existing army at a later date though. Just to give some more variation at least. Once they're available form North Star I'll most likely have to add some Normans and Saxons as well. Keep up the good work on these.