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Author Topic: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Kirke's Lambs  (Read 3248 times)

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Help needed
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2021, 07:04:12 PM »
I again guys, here you have the notes I took from several books and magazines dealing with military actions in North Africa in late XVII c.

I hope you find useful this information !


Thanks Chema that is very useful.  It confirms in my mind that I am looking at a skirmish game, with actions by sortie or perhaps a siege and escalade by the Moors.  To that end I am firming up the use of The Pikeman's Lament as my go-to rules  but with some adaptions as necessary to cater for the siege actions and the troop variations.

It also confirms to me that the Moors/Morroccans must have had some standing forces as maintaining several thousand men in the field for a number of months or even years could not be done with a volunteer/conscript type of army. So the force will be a mix of regular/drilled forces and levy/untrained forces but with professional artillery.

The final deduction I have made is that as they had access to siege artillery, they therefore must also have had wide access to firearms, probably older matchlock muskets in the main, no doubt backed up by bow and spear armed infantry.

That gives me the basis of how I will organise the Moorish forces, along with their cavalry which will be a mix of bow, spear/lance and possibly pistol armed cavalry.

All I need to do now is identify the most suitable figures to provide that mix of forces.  ;) ;)

Offline fastolfrus

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Help needed
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2021, 07:46:12 PM »
If you're looking at a skirmish, League of Augsberg have a scenario in the free introductory pack 4P000
Not on their website, but if you drop them an email they might send you one.
You could also ask what figures they used in the photos?
Gary, Glynis, and Alasdair (there are three of us, but we are too mean to have more than one login)

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Help needed
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2021, 08:06:07 PM »
If you're looking at a skirmish, League of Augsberg have a scenario in the free introductory pack 4P000
Not on their website, but if you drop them an email they might send you one.
You could also ask what figures they used in the photos?

Thanks for the tip.

Offline Baron von Wreckedoften

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Help needed
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2021, 04:28:41 PM »
Not realising this was here, I put up a similar request on the League of Augsburg's "Fighting Talk" forum, in relation to building an opposing army for a FoG:R 15mm game (I already have the Tangiers Garrison force for 1680-ish, including a regiment of Spanish horse).  I'll keep an eye on here and share whatever my request elicits.

(Helion have published a book on the Ottoman Army of 1648-1718, if that is of any use.)
No plan survives first contact with the dice.

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Help needed
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2021, 05:35:43 PM »
Not realising this was here, I put up a similar request on the League of Augsburg's "Fighting Talk" forum, in relation to building an opposing army for a FoG:R 15mm game (I already have the Tangiers Garrison force for 1680-ish, including a regiment of Spanish horse).  I'll keep an eye on here and share whatever my request elicits.

(Helion have published a book on the Ottoman Army of 1648-1718, if that is of any use.)

I have a request to join the League of Augsberg forum which is pending so I'll catch up on your thread once I'm accepted. I did email Barry Hilton regarding the PDF scenarios and he was kind enough to send me a couple.  There is another in the Taste of Victory book, which I will get at some stage.

Feel free to add to the debate here as it seems that there is no concensus as to how the Moors were armed and equipped.  As such I am making some assumptions which are in the posts above.

Despite we are looking at different scales I am sure that some ideas will cross permeate.  Thanks also for the info on the Hellion book.  I am sure the read over regarding troop types and weaponry will be useful.

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2021, 10:24:59 AM »
I have decided to dip my toe into creating some Moorish forces for the Tangiers project.  I did an extensive look at what figures were available both in metal (my preference) and plastic.  There are plenty of bow and spear armed arab infantry from various ranges but almost no musket armed troops except Turks.  I wanted to create a musket armed unit that had an arab look but not look too regimented nor too Turkish looking.

So as an exploratory foray into the Moorish forces I bought a sprue each of the Gripping Beast Arab Infantry, the Perry Afghans and the Wargames Atlantic Afghans (who have yet to arrive) and started some kitbashing.

The Perry Afghans had quite an array of Jezzails which when used out of the NWF context could pass as Matchlocks.  Here are a couple of figures made from GB Arab bodies and Perry arms with a mix of the two sets heads.  First up is a GB body and head with Perry Arms.



Next is a GB body with Perry arms and head.  You can see the better definition of the Perry heads which are much better sculpted than the GB plastics.



Then you have a couple of straight out of the box Perrys.



I was generally happy with the mix of the two sets until I put the two side by side.  You can see in this shot that an upright Perry (left) next to a GB figure.  The GB are quite a lot shorter although roughly the same bulk.



It is less noticeable when the figures are slighty hunched over when running as shown here.



But very noticeable when the Perry figures are upright.



I solved this by a little trump d'oeil involving the basing.  I intend to mount these on my standard 2p coins as they will be a skirmish force.  I added some height by introducing another 1p cpoin to the base of the GB figures which brought their height to a more pleasing level. Once I have finished teh ground work and flocking of the bases, the extra height will not be noticeable.




Finally here is a group shout of the first 11 figures. I intend to see what I can make out of the WA sprue before deciding which figures will make up my first unit of 12. I may not use all of those in the photo.





Offline Captain Blood

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2021, 10:54:39 AM »
They’ll do the job very nicely Gary  8)

Offline Grumpy Gnome

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2021, 11:01:54 AM »
Some cool kitbashing mate!
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Offline mikedemana

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2021, 05:44:39 PM »
It always amazes me how people can take a bit here and there from different bodies and create an awesome new figure...  :o

Mike Demana
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2021, 11:07:27 AM »
They’ll do the job very nicely Gary  8)

Some cool kitbashing mate!

It always amazes me how people can take a bit here and there from different bodies and create an awesome new figure...  :o

Mike Demana
http://leadlegionaries.blogspot.com/

Thanks guys. They may not be the best in the world but they seem to work. 

The Wargames Atlantic sprue arrived yesterday and I was keen to see what I could make out of that.  The good news is that their jezzail was almost identical to the Perry's. The bad news is that the bodies were very Afghan (wrong mix of tunics and trousers for my part of the world) and there was only one that came close to matching the others. Here he is against a Perry.



As you can see he is quite slight and not as sharply sculpted as the Perry figure.

Here he is with both the GB (left) and Perry (right).



However add a bit of height with another base and he is pretty good and I think will fit in with the other figures quite well when painted up,





Offline NurgleHH

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2021, 11:41:40 AM »
Great ideas, but I think GB does not fit well with Perrys and Wargames Atlantic. But with color you will make it better, I think. The GB-plastics are very poor, I'm afraid. Your work is fantastic, as usual. New project???
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Offline traveller

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2021, 02:04:11 PM »
  Very interesting thread this, will follow with interest!  :-*

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2021, 02:06:51 PM »
  Very interesting thread this, will follow with interest!  :-*

Thanks. Follow on.  :D

Great ideas, but I think GB does not fit well with Perrys and Wargames Atlantic. But with color you will make it better, I think. The GB-plastics are very poor, I'm afraid. Your work is fantastic, as usual. New project???

Thanks Dirk.  Whilst I agree that the three ranges are quite different, funnily enough I think that the GB are closer to what I envisaged as a Moor than the two Afghan ranges when I started. They are just not the best figures out there. 

I'll see what they look like once painted up and make a decision as to which ones make the final cut.  I also plan to convert some metals using the Perry Jezzail arms so I might get closer to what I am looking for with them.

As to a new project, I'll simply add this one to the other 4 or so that I have going on.  :D :D 

They'll have to take their turn on the painting table but you never know this one might make it to BLAM 2022.  lol lol

Offline Baron von Wreckedoften

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2021, 08:47:01 PM »
No response from anyone yet on the League of Augsburg board......  :(

Offline Hu Rhu

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Re: Moorish Forces at Tangier - Matchlock Musketmen
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2021, 09:02:23 AM »
No response from anyone yet on the League of Augsburg board......  :(

I'm still waiting for confirmation of my request to join their Forum.  :?

 

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