Warhammer ancient Battles V.2 2800pts Macedonian Army list For Scrutiny!

[Atheling]

As with my Middle Imperial Roman list on the thread here:
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=133733.new;topicseen#new

I'm hedging my bets and putting two list together (which might grow as I'm already thinking Franks!).

I really do need a wee bit of help as I've only played WAB V.2 a few times and that was over a decade ago! I have literally just seen the Armies of antiquity V.2 lists for the first time a few days ago so it is very much a learning experience for me!

Any help will be gratefully received!

Without further ago here's the list:

CHARACTERS: Up to 25%
CAVALRY: Up to 33%
INFANTRY: At least 25%
WAR MACHINES, ALLIES AND MERCANARIES: Up to 25%

CHARACTERS:

ALEXANDER:
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Large Shield/Xyston/Warhorse               270
Special Rules- Army General/Veteran

CAVALRY:

11 COMPANIONS: (L/M)                                       395                                                 Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Xyston/Horse
Special Rules- Wedge/Stubborn      
                     
12 COMPANIONS: (L/M)                              394
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Xyston/Horse
Special Rules- Wedge

INFANTRY-PHANLANX:
27 PHALANGITES: (L/M)                              442
Hand Weapon/Pike/Shield                              
Special Rules- Macedonian Phalanx/Drilled

27 PHALANGITES: (L/M)                              442
Hand Weapon/Pike/Shield                              
Special Rules- Macedonian Phalanx/Drilled

21 HYASPISTS: (L/M)                              409
Hand Weapon/Thrusting Spear/Large Shield
Special Rules- Light Infantry/Drilled   
      
INFANTRY-SKIRMISHERS:
11 AGRARIANS:                              110
(Not subject to Allies and Mercenaries Rule)
Hand Weapon/Javelins/Buckler
Special Rules- Skirmishers

11 MERCENARTY SKIRMISHERS:                        96
(Not subject to Allies and Mercenaries Rule)
Hand Weapon/Javelins/Buckler
Special Rules- Skirmishers

11 MERCENARTY SKIRMISHERS:                        96
(Not subject to Allies and Mercenaries Rule)
Hand Weapon/Composite Bow/Buckler
Special Rules- Skirmishers

10 CRETAN ARCHERS:                              140
Hand Weapon/Composite bow/Buckler
Special Rules- Skirmishers

Total = 2794

Thanks for looking it over 

[Tim Haslam]

Interesting?

I’m thinking,
1 wedge with Alexander.
Maybe prodromoi, which can be very good anti light troops.
3 phalanx units.
2 small Hypaspist units, say 12, giving you an option to run them as posh skirmishers.
You may have too many of the other skirmish units?

Apart from that, it’s perfect! Lol

[Atheling]

Interesting?

I’m thinking,
1 wedge with Alexander.

That is done. I wanted two units of Companions as they aren't very well armoured and may go down fast to a reasonably shooty force?

Maybe prodromoi, which can be very good anti light troops.

I do like the Prodromoi as anti light troops but I'm very wary of just having one Hammer unit ie the Companions for the reason above. I.e shot to ribbons too easliy

3 phalanx units.

Here's a question; do I need all the Phalanx units drilled or possibly just the Hypaspists?

2 small Hypaspist units, say 12, giving you an option to run them as posh skirmishers.
You may have too many of the other skirmish units?

There's a problem there- you wither have to take Thrusting Spears or Javelins not both

I wanted to include Light Cavalry as a screen/skirmisher killers but they don't have an equipment profile! I checked the AoA V.2 Errata and i couldn't see anything in there either 

Apart from that, it’s perfect! Lol

Oh boy..... possibly back to the drawing board! 

[Tim Haslam]

Agreed 1 wedge is brittle, but it allows the Prodromoi instead.

Once your phalanx is deployed maybe drilled isn’t necessary??
8 wide by 3 ranks, three units can cover a wide frontage.
5+ save pike/phalanx units are pretty tough to beat (within period)
Hypaspists, I would just use as posh skirmishers.

[Atheling]

Thanks Tim

This list writing stuff is tough 

Agreed 1 wedge is brittle, but it allows the Prodromoi instead.

I still prefer two unis of Companions. If one's looking flaky Alexander can always leg it to the other 

Once your phalanx is deployed maybe drilled isn’t necessary??

Maybe one Drilled Phalanx at least. I do like the idea of deploying in March order and moving to wherever is most advantageous. Suddenly having a Phalanx threatening a flak is going to give anyone pause for thought.

8 wide by 3 ranks, three units can cover a wide frontage.

I'll see what I can com up with by dropping Drilled and see if I like what I see.

5+ save pike/phalanx units are pretty tough to beat (within period)

True.

Hypaspists, I would just use as posh skirmishers.

They're 21 points a piece and with Javelins and Shield are 19. Pretty expensive and a bit od a waste of their WS4???

[Jjonas]

Nice list. Full of the WAB 2.0 trappings. The 9 wide phalanx might be nice for table coverage, but the drilled may be a nuisance in tournament play.
Seems fairly rare that I've ever suffered because of lack of Drilled phalanx in any WAB event, unless faced with scythed chariots. Of course WAB 2 adds a few extra detailed capabilities for Drilled units so it may be more important than my limited WAB 2 game experiences. I find in tournaments that only have "pitched battle" as the scenario make some of the Drilled capabilities go unused. Deploying phalanxes in column as quick reserve has never worked for me well in WAB, since the Hypaspists are better at it.

I also feel the Hypaspists might be a bit large, and two smaller units might be advised.
I tend to like Thracians with my early Macedonians, but these can easily be fielded as your mercenaries.

Shifting one unit to Prodromoi from Companions makes sense. Two wedges are much more powerful though with Oracles, so having a super fast one is really nice.

Your mercenary skirmishers with bows will lose their bucklers.

One thing I always take with this army is a heavy Ballista. At least it gives something for opposing elephants to be wary of.

I'm not a fan of the Alexander or any special character in tournaments, so I don't take them. I think the regular general is just ok, and there isn't any reason why you cannot use an Alexander figure.

Good luck army building, it is much of the fun.

[Atheling]

Hi Jeff, It's almost like the ye olde days of the WAB Forum

Nice list. Full of the WAB 2.0 trappings. The 9 wide phalanx might be nice for table coverage, but the drilled may be a nuisance in tournament play.

Please don't be fooled by the "WAB V.2 trappings". I only played on one friendly event with WAB V.2 then it pretty much died out. The last game I remember seeing inn person (not playing) was James Morris' El Cid game, The Pine Wood Of Tevar at Partizan 2011! I'm quite out of touch with WAB V.2 but it would certainly be fun to lay in an event and see some old chums again. The idea of getting the list more or less right was simply just to avoid getting wiped out at pace in every game and to allow for both players to have a good experience.

Seems fairly rare that I've ever suffered because of lack of Drilled phalanx in any WAB event, unless faced with scythed chariots. Of course WAB 2 adds a few extra detailed capabilities for Drilled units so it may be more important than my limited WAB 2 game experiences. I find in tournaments that only have "pitched battle" as the scenario make some of the Drilled capabilities go unused. Deploying phalanxes in column as quick reserve has never worked for me well in WAB, since the Hypaspists are better at it.

I also feel the Hypaspists might be a bit large, and two smaller units might be advised.

I might give it a try. Maybe with the extra points I gain by dropping Drilled on the Phalanx I can add a few more Hypaspists, maybe two small units as both you and Tim have suggested. The problem in AoA V.2 is that the Hypaspists have to take Thrusting Spears or Javelins not both EDIT: I've found the Light Cavalry entry for equipment! It wasn't in Capital letters so just didn't jump out of the page at me.

I tend to like Thracians with my early Macedonians, but these can easily be fielded as your mercenaries.

Actually, that hadn't even occurred to me. Could be quite a threat with their Rhomphaia against the relatively unarmoured armies of the day.

Shifting one unit to Prodromoi from Companions makes sense. Two wedges are much more powerful though with Oracles, so having a super fast one is really nice.

This is also something I will consider when rejuggling the list.

Your mercenary skirmishers with bows will lose their bucklers.

Good spot. I missed that

One thing I always take with this army is a heavy Ballista. At least it gives something for opposing elephants to be wary of.

Thanks, something else I will consider- hopefully I can squeeze one in.

I'm not a fan of the Alexander or any special character in tournaments, so I don't take them. I think the regular general is just ok, and there isn't any reason why you cannot use an Alexander figure.

Dropping Alexander would certainly release a heck of a lot of points.

Thank you very much Jeff. I will have another list prepared in a few hours. It would be great if you could please find the time to cast you eye over the second list?

Cheers

[Atheling]

OK, folks, here's the second iteration of then list with many of the changes from Tim and Jeff taken into account.

I think this is a bulkier army (in a good way).

So, having never used a Macedonian army before, my basic thinking is this.

Both Cavalry Units on one wing acting together. The Prodromoi swiftly into the charge to remove any Light Cavalry Skirmish Screen to allow the Companions to charge home. If no such Light Cavalry Skirmish Screen is present the the Prodromoi might be able to set up in March and threaten a Flank. They are certainly not going to last long if they just charge head long into a formed infantry unit (or am I incorrect in that assumption?)

I will probably use the Cretan Archers and Mercenary Archers in a supporting role for the Cavalry, trying to pick off what they can before both/either of the Cavalry Units hit home.

The Phalanx will do what a Phalanx does best  and act as the Anvil moving forward at a steady pace in an effort to pin the enemy Infantry units.

I have left the Hypaspists with Drilled and with Large Shield and Thrusting Spear as I still see their roll primarily as protecting the flanks of the two Phalanges. Being Drilled they are manoeuvrable enough to shuffle into a new position should the opportunity to threaten a flank be presented to me.

The Mercenaries Skirmishers with Javelins and the Agrianians will protect the front of the Phalanx until it is time to engage or can zip down a flank to face off against enemy Skirmishers.

The Heavy Ballista, as Jeff said will try to pick off any elephant threats. If not elephants are present then they can simply be used to weaken enemy formations.

Well, they are the basics- here's the list!

Warhammer Ancient Battles V.2 Macedon List- List 2- with a lot of changes

CHARACTERS: Up to 25%
CAVALRY: Up to 33%
INFANTRY: At least 25%
WAR MACHINES, ALLIES AND MERCANARIES: Up to 25%

CHARACTERS:

STRATEGOS:
Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Large Shield/Xyston/Warhorse               174
Special Rules- Army General/Veteran

CAVALRY:

11 COMPANIONS: (L/M)                                       395                                                 Hand Weapon/Heavy Armour/Xyston/Horse
Special Rules- Wedge/Stubborn
                           
12 PRODROMOI: (L/M)                              334
Hand Weapon/Horse/Xyston
Special Rules- Light Cavalry/Wedge

INFANTRY-PHANLANX:
27 PHALANGITES: (L/M)                                       378   
Hand Weapon/Pike/Shield                        
Special Rules- Macedonian Phalanx/Mixed Armour(not relevant)

27 PHALANGITES: (L/M)                                        378                                                 Hand Weapon/Pike/Shield
Special Rules- Macedonian Phalanx/Mixed Armour(not relevant)
                                                                                  
18 HYASPISTS: (L/M)                                       352                                                                                                                 Hand Weapon/Thrusting Spear/Large Shield
Special Rules- Light Infantry/Drilled

18 HYASPISTS: (L/M)                                       352                                                                                                                 Hand Weapon/Thrusting Spear/Large Shield
Special Rules- Light Infantry/Drilled
                              
INFANTRY-SKIRMISHERS:

10 AGRARIANS:                              100
Hand Weapon/Javelins/Buckler
Special Rules- Skirmishers

10 MERCENARTY SKIRMISHERS:                        80
(Not subject to Allies and Mercenaries Rule)
Hand Weapon/Javelins/Buckler

11 MERCENARTY SKIRMISHERS:                        80
(Not subject to Allies and Mercenaries Rule)
Hand Weapon/Composite Bow
Special Rules- Skirmishers

9 CRETAN ARCHERS:                              126
Hand Weapon/Composite bow/Buckler
Special Rules- Skirmishers

WARMACHINES:

HEAVY BALLISTA:                              42
Total = 2791

[Tim Haslam]

It’s starting to look a bit more useful now.
You can fine tune armies for ever mate.
I think you’ve got it reasonably balanced now.
I can carry on with my criticism (constructive) but it’s fair as it is.
 

[Atheling]

It’s starting to look a bit more useful now.
You can fine tune armies for ever mate.
I think you’ve got it reasonably balanced now.
I can carry on with my criticism (constructive) but it’s fair as it is.
 

Cheers pal.

It will be interesting to hear what Jeff has to say as it's very much his "thing"

And if you're reading this Jeff, that is very much a hint 

The army feels more balanced but is it?

As I said earlier, I want to be able to give my opponent a good game without being wiped out in three turns- which has happened to me on several occasions in WAB 1.5