WH Great war ruleset for BoB / RCW gaming?

[RJ]

Hi all,

I have the WH Great war ruleset and i play early war brits and i think its great. The rules are fast and furious, lots of minis and dice rolling - just what i like!

I have contemptible little armies but it just doesnt grasp me, although some rules are fun and the army lists are very useful.

I want to expand into BoB/RCW because i love the models, imagery and history. Im thinking - can i adapt the GW rules for this period?

Im thinking yes but i was wondering what you guys would change/add to make it more suitable.

Also, what GW army lists would you use to correspond to the various BoB forces.

Any help is greatly aprericiated.

[Poliorketes]

Of course you can, but keep in mind that WTGW is ment for large forces. If you intend to play with less than 50 models per side there are other rules more suited for this (Price of Glory, Triumph and Tragedy etc.).

Another thing you have to remember is that even with the regular forces of the WTGW-rulebook morale is a problem when facing overwhelming firepower and little cover. With BoB you will have lots of low morale troops, I recommend to strictly limit the number of heavy weapons you use unless you want to see most armies running away on turn one, and take a lot of terrain for cover.

You can use several of the profiles in the WTGW-book as model for BoB-forces, but you'll have to make up your own stats for irregular forces like Mongols or Bandits. Remember that in the back of beyond there have been no crack storm trooper units, stick with the second rate profiles of WTGW for the better units in the BoB (with the exception of the british)! Use the early war close formations for red, white or chinese 'regulars'. For strategic ratings, compared to the WTGW-armies some BoB-armies must have a negative rating. As this is silly you have to do a new scale that is not comparable to the one in WTGW.

Give it a try and let us know the results!

[Stecal]

If you search the WAB Forum Great War section you will find some amateur BoB Great War Lists for Warlord Chineese and others that you can download.  Search on Bob or the user bluepixieevil

http://wabforum.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=58&sid=59f167851b84f9c3de25469a1d3903f7

[RJ]

Great input guys thankyou very much!

The lists from the WAB forum are very useful and im likely to give them a try.

I read that the creator made three other lists but i couldnt find them when i searched? Its a shame as im very interested in the chinese bandits list.

Is there any more info / advice out there?

[Ignatieff]

I think its hard to beat Chris Peers army lists for general background info (including the Chinese lists).  I agree re his rules.  They also suffer from being adapted from a WWI set.

[RJ]

I think its hard to beat Chris Peers army lists for general background info (including the Chinese lists).  I agree re his rules.  They also suffer from being adapted from a WWI set.

Agreed, they are awesome and have given me so much inspiration and a basis for converting to TGW rules.

[coggon]

Have you considered "Through the Mud & Blood" from Too Fat Lardies?   As written, they are WWI rules but our group used them for  a Mad Baron vs. Chinese Warlord game that was lots of fun.  The rules allow you to customize your commanders some, so we added a warlord exectioner and allowed for the possibility that Baron might suddenly spot a Bolshevik in his ranks 

[Stecal]

I've used "Mud & Blood" for BoB games and I think it works great.  It is a great game system once you get the hang of it.  If you aren't a veteran of IABSM it may require some time spent on the 2FL yahoogroup for clarifications.

[Stecal]

Great input guys thankyou very much!

The lists from the WAB forum are very useful and im likely to give them a try.

I read that the creator made three other lists but i couldnt find them when i searched? Its a shame as im very interested in the chinese bandits list.

Is there any more info / advice out there?

Bandits:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=4332

Chinese Warlord army:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=4333

Dinosaur Hunters:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=4378

Chinghai Army:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=4741

Bolsheviks:
http://wabforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=5837

[former user]

like with any WH rules, WHAB is very dependant on the army lists for balance
basically "Grat War" has every example units you need for BOB
maybe a little weak on armoured cars

but the army lists are for western front trench war, which is a little bit different
so just be careful with the heavy weapons

has "over the top" been released yet ?

[RJ]

Thanks to everyone for your input and for the remaining links to the WAB conversion lists.

If anyone has had the chance to read through thed bolshevik list, what sort of changes would you make to field a white russian force?

[former user]

this seems like a generic list

basically the army formation would be for the bolsheviks from 1918 to 1921
from many regular and raw formations (inexperienced) and few elite at the start to increasingly more veteran formations and sophisticated equipment towards the end

for the whites it is vice versa:
crack elite at the start and a bunch of ragged bandits in the end when the former elite has been replaced with deserters and forced conscripts

so You can use them for both red and white, but of course replace comissars, red guard and cheka with appropriate units  (colour and officer regiments eg, entente advisors for comissars)

[answer_is_42]

I use The Great War with minimal adaptions for colonial games with roughly 50 figures a side. As long as you don't take too many machine guns etc it should work well. 40k is a very versatile set, and can be used for just about any period.
That said, I'm always on the lookout for a better ruleset, I've just yet to find one...

[redzed]

I think its hard to beat Chris Peers army lists for general background info (including the Chinese lists). 

which books would you recommend getting?

[Mark Plant]

A friend is getting into this and we have discussed it a bit. Things I think need changing from the Great War rules are:

1) MGs can move even after they have been fired. I would look at reducing their firepower too, to reflect poor training, maintenance and limited ammunition. (I would also make artillery slightly more random, for the same reasons.)

2) Something needs to be done to make charging cavalry more effective if you want to play Poland, Southern Russia or Siberia. A good cavalry unit from those places should be able to take on an isolated line infantry unit frontally. The mechanism presumably would need to be morale based.

3) You need rules for tachankas. (They are not "inferior armoured cars". Not even close.)

4) You need rules for armoured trains. Not because they were that important, but people won't generally play RCW without wanting to add a train eventually.

5) Assuming you want to play RCW and not BoB, I would add some rules to reflect the different mentality of the soldiers. In particular the fear of being surrounded or cut off by a fast moving battle.

I would add that I think Chris Peer's lists bear little resemblance to actual RCW armies, and are a poor basis for real RCW lists. They are pure BoB.

I have written a list of provisional values for the troop types encountered for my friend. I am happy to forward this if you are interested. It may seem odd but they have morale values not grossly different from the WWI lists. I was sort of hoping to convert them into proper lists for him soon, but I have been busy elsewhere.