Current opinions on Five Klicks from the Zone?

[Grumpy Gnome]

With all the recent publicity around Five Parsecs from Home and Five Leagues from the Borderlands the post-apoc game Five Klicks from the Zone has come to my attention.

What are the current opinions on it, say in comparison to games like Last Days, Zona Alfa and This is Not a Test?

[nandrin]

Not really easy to compare because "Five xxx..." rules are solo games whereas the others are player vs. player. I like the campaign system which is very extensive and use a lot of the ideas for other games like the mentioned ones.
I don´t like solo play much, but if I would, this would be one of my favourites.

[Grumpy Gnome]

Solo is going to be my preferred option as Mrs. GG does not like post-apoc.

The narrative building campaign system of the other 5xxx series is what caught my attention. However I am curious if 5 Klicks is going to be as well supported as the other 5xxx series games as well as how polished it already is at this stage.

[Kikuchiyo]

New one to me, sounds like its worth a look

[CookAndrewB]

I'm a solo gamer 90% of the time. 5 Klicks is my favorite post-apoc engine for playing games because of the elements already listed. The "5 Units of Distance" series have some meaningful and useful interlude events that explain all the things that go on in the world between tabletop games. These can be as simple as some gained equipment to a larger world event that could spawn a particular mission.

The 5K series has expansions that work as unlockable quests. There is no need to buy these expansions, but they unlock particular enemy types, unique loot only found in that area, and generally add some more flavor. Each expansion (Factory, Skull Collector, and Hazy Cave) area is meant to be run a finite number of times before the expansion is exhausted and the location is tapped out. It reminds me of Fallout 3 DLC where you enter an area like the Pitt, do what you came to do, and then that side quest is over. Other expansions are universally applied to all games and simply add some new rules, or even something like wasteland critters as companions.

I have a thread that walks through my own 5K campaign from the creation of my team through a few battle reports and walks through everything from terrain layout, some in-game rolls of the dice and outcomes, and all of the after-action moves. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/post_apoc_wargames/homer-run-in-five-klicks-t6226.html

[Grumpy Gnome]

Thanks for the information and link mate, I will go have a look now.

[Kikuchiyo]

15" range for a Sniper rifle seems a little odd but I like the settlement activity idea

might try and work that into my ZA gaming

[zemjw]

New one on me, thanks for bringing it to my attention. I can see it being bought in the not too distant future (so much for No Spend January regarding hobby spend )

I just had a quick scan of a review - link. The final recommendation section is worth reading, as he covers who should, and who should not, get the game, in his opinion.

edited to correct the type of January I'm trying to refrain from 

[CookAndrewB]

15" range for a Sniper rifle seems a little odd but I like the settlement activity idea

might try and work that into my ZA gaming

Hunting rifle and military rifle are 15" but Sharp Shooter's rifle is listed at 18" in the basic rules. This effectively lets a sniper-type character hit anything on a basic 3x3' board if they are standing in the middle. It also covers half of the table (in essence) from the deployment zone. That said, I rarely set up maps that have long lines of sight so I'm not sure I've ever run into a situation where being able to shoot further than 12" ever mattered. 

[Grumpy Gnome]

Those ranges are something I would have to adjust with house rules. Such short ranges seem all the rage with skirmish games but seems off to me when it comes to modern firearms combat.

You AAR‘s are entertaining mate. Slowly working my way through them. The comic book format is brilliant. I really like your wasteland trader model as well, clever.

[CookAndrewB]

Those ranges are something I would have to adjust with house rules. Such short ranges seem all the rage with skirmish games but seems off to me when it comes to modern firearms combat.

You AAR‘s are entertaining mate. Slowly working my way through them. The comic book format is brilliant. I really like your wasteland trader model as well, clever.

Well, I think of it as a way to try and explain the differences between a handgun and a sniper rifle. Truthfully, on the average tabletop in 28mm scale, every weapon would be able to shoot the full length of the table with little trouble. I wrote up a rather long post at one point which discussed the physics involved in modern firearms and talked about effective tabletop scale ranges, but it is fair enough to simply say that even a handgun would be effective (accurate and lethal) out to several tabletops' worth of terrain. Rifles more so, and a large caliber rifle would have the effect of something like off-table artillery support.

That is all hard to represent on a table. It is also difficult to describe the damage capacity difference between a .44 and 5.56 bullet at close range. 12" would be a bit less than 60 feet. I think it is fair to say that few combatants want to be that close to someone shooting at them. In the ACW, average engagement distances were closer to 60 yards, and that "closeness" was thought to be part of the staggering casualty numbers. That 60-yard mark is roughly a 36x36" table, right (28mm scale, roughly)? So this is "close" in civil war times, with inferior weapons, comparatively. If anything this is part of the argument for 15mm or smaller gaming. It comes close to doubling the tabletop ranges, which might feel better.

In the apocalypse, I assume that some part of the limitation is simply poorly maintained weapons. 5k does have a mechanism for gaming jammed and unusable weapons that I like. But the range piece may more aptly describe sights that aren't true, barrels that aren't true, or a combo of both... and garbage self-loaded rounds. That alone could be a little like firing a Wiffle ball and not a baseball! 

[Grumpy Gnome]

My problem with the short firearms ranges in many games is that it creates an atmosphere much like an airsoft game where folks move around in the open if they feel they are outside “max range”.

[nandrin]

I think the short ranges of firearms are part of making a game challenging and entertaining, and not a simulation of reality. I think of tabletop games as action films, that helps a lot! 

[CookAndrewB]

My problem with the short firearms ranges in many games is that it creates an atmosphere much like an airsoft game where folks move around in the open if they feel they are outside “max range”.

Oh, well that is easy for 5k. There are very rare situations where enemy AI leaves them in the open. Some enemies will charge and ignore cover, but more often they will advance, or hold, in cover. Enemy AI rules are pretty easy to follow and they make sense or have made sense to me as I've been playing. Maybe there are some situations where I don't think an enemy would do something and I'll just alter the action. It is just me playing solo after all.

Again, I think that the max range rarely factors in when I play because I like terrain density. There might be the occasional long sightline, but mostly it is urban combat in claustrophobic alleys and buildings. I also dislike having 2-3 rounds of gaming where I'm just pushing figures around with no action, so I tend to go a little smaller on the table size (2x2 being most prevalent) and 5k has a mechanism by which there might be a surprise enemy spawn on the table which means even on an open table you could end up being face to face with some enemies waiting in ambush.

[Kikuchiyo]

I like a dense 2X2 table too

just wondering what the benifit of a SR over an assault rifle is if the range is the same?