4Ground going out business… and having a sale

[NotifyGrout]

On the resin front I'd say we're already there. A mars2 will set you back less than a low end laptop, and the water washable resin makes it very easy to process your finished prints. The software kicking around for slicing is all very basic and easy to learn, and there are so many sites to buy pre supported,pre sliced minis now. Actual printer set up is barely harder than with a laser printer.

I have one in my office and it's easier to run than a cricut machine - hell, i'd say it's easier to set up and run than most peoples phone.

From what I've seen, a $200 resin printer will print almost anything but the tiniest of details. It's not unaffordable to many already in the hobby, even if one buys and wash and cure station to make that part simpler.

The thing is that with a lot of new tech, there's still the tech phobia hurdle to scale. As the hobby gains more tech-savvy, younger people, I think we will shift towards it. It's not that they are actually hard to use (was expecting my FDA Anycubic i3 Mega Plus to be much harder than it was), it's the perception that they're fancy, newfangled tech that only nerds can operate.

As more store employees learn to use the technology, they'll start offering print-on-demand for those who cannot afford to buy their own printers, and that will be a huge help (there are a lot of online shops that already do it, but they range widely in price and quality).

I think the final step that will make it the norm will be Games Workshop selling STLs. If they get into it, their cult fans will follow, and then it will become the default.

[zemjw]

I had been thinking about buying some stuff from 4Ground, but this thread has made me rethink those plans.

I dug out my old Citadel "How to make wargames terrain" book this afternoon (benefit of working from home). I can't say it will go any further for a while, but we'll see...

I also just got a £5 voucher from Sarissa because I haven't ordered from them in a while (November 2020 according to my records ), so I may take advantage of that.

On the 3d printing side of things, I've never made decent use of my FDM printer, although I have printed a few things with it. A resin one would be nice for figures, but, as others have noted, it is pretty much its own hobby. My painting speed wouldn't justify the cost, especially with a lead mountain sitting there judging me all day.

[nozza_uk]

I also just got a £5 voucher from Sarissa because I haven't ordered from them in a while (November 2020 according to my records ), so I may take advantage of that.

I got that too. For me the £5 covered the price of the postage on my order.

[boneio]

I resisted getting a resin printer for a long time (have had FDM for about a year) and having purchased a 2nd-hand one off a friend I've got to say, it's very easy. I previously was in the 'not really mass-market ready' camp and it *could* be easier but it's not far off plug and play. It's just smelly and messy. With presupported files, getting prints is very simple.

My painting speed wouldn't justify the cost, especially with a lead mountain sitting there judging me all day.

This is spot on! The value of my printer is excellent but I worry it's going to simply add more to my ridiculous lead mountain...but in resin!

More on topic I'm a little wary of buying from 4ground as well at this point. Someone I'm acquainted with went to work there and hasn't really said anything about the news publicly. Why were 4ground taking on new staff shortly before then folding? Why is electricity such a major cost that they now can't afford to continue?
It's a shame because I've got quite a lot of their kits including the stoic arms and the windmill, and they're very nice, and in my eyes easier than printing and painting. But the designer who did those is to my understanding long gone so there won't be more of them anyway...

[mr ed]

Why is electricity such a major cost that they now can't afford to continue?

Perhaps they spent all the kickstatrter money on bitcoin miners 

[Mammoth miniatures]

Perhaps they spent all the kickstatrter money on bitcoin miners 

Lasercutters use shedloads of power, and 3d printers on top of that mean they were probably using a fair bit of leccy every day.
One of the big things with their kickstarter was that they were going to 3d print EVERY miniatures - not print masters, just outright print them - I can only imagine how big the bill would have been had they every actually done that.

[carlos marighela]

I’m not a kickstarter follower as a rule but I’m curious as to whether their ‘internal restructure’ a year or so back which saw nominal ownership change and caused a hiatus in production and sales pre-dated, post-dated or neatly coincided with their kickstarter woes.

Anyone know?

It all seems a bit Tony Reidy-ish to me.

[wkeyser]

Hi Carlos
No it started way before that. 

I am just speculating but I think what happened was that they promised a weekend gaming with the beta rules and figures in Feb  2018 after the Kickstarter ended July 2017 so only a few months. They then had problems with plastic figures from China, then could not find a caster for resin figures for the November event so went to 3d printing. This is where the problems seem to have happened, they said that all was well and yes they where almost finished with printing all the figures but no pictures of these for years and finally they showed pictures of lots of figures but that was after months of silence.  Then I think they had problems with the other part of their company and our money probably ended up their and not in the kickstater.

The thing that pisses me off is that the game was great and really innovative, but instead of coming to their backers and saying they had problems and would like to work it out the just went silent.

Launched June 2017
Funded July 2017  (stole our money)
Weekend event with beta rules and figures for attendees Feb 2018
Delivery Sept 2018
Last update Oct 2020 then radio silence.

Not only silence but when a couple of the backers went on their facebook page and asked about the Kickstater they were blocked.

I think when I look back on it I remember an interview with the guys from 4 Ground on the Beasts of War web site. The game looked fantastic  but boy did they seem like complete scatter brains, but I thought ok there are a lot of eccentric characters in the hobby and we are better for them but obviously these guys had no idea of how to run a company.

So Karma is a bitch I hope they lose lots of money in their bankruptcy!  ok so just a little bitter and still pissed

[carlos marighela]

You miss the point about bankruptcy. You declare it to avoid losing a lot of money and being potentially held personally liable. It’s the creditors who take it up the jacksy.

[boneio]

You miss the point about bankruptcy. You declare it to avoid losing a lot of money and being potentially held personally liable. It’s the creditors who take it up the jacksy.

Yup. And the last time something similar happened with 4ground they closed the trading entity, said they had "lost" access to their previous website (for which I read: failed to pay the suppliers), and opened up again as 4ground publishing.

Whether incompetence or deliberate business practice, it doesn't read very well and I've not purchased much if anything from them directly for a long time because I don't trust them.

I wouldn't be particularly surprised if, say, "5ground" appears shortly after 4ground closes its doors following the sale...

[carlos marighela]

I would have thought that by way of showing that the owners had a commitment to the business and their customer base, ‘skin in the game’ if you will, that their next corporate iteration would be as 4 Skin Models/ Publishing. The advertising tags just write themselves after that. 

[Cubs]

Anyone struggling to get their orders from 4Ground or unwilling to take a chance, I've just noticed 'Firestorm Games' and 'Great Escape Games' are having major clearance sales of their 4Ground stock and presumably just about every other stockist will be doing the same.

[Hitman]

Still waiting for mine!! 

[carlos marighela]

Never mind even if it doesn’t arrive, all orders received put you into a draw to win the Brooklyn Bridge. 

[LeadAsbestos]

Ordered when I heard they were shutting down, got really good prices, and my stuff arrived stateside in 10 days or so? Flawless, really.