Best manufacturers for Late Roman / Romano-British minis

[WorkShy]

Hi

Getting back into mini wargaming after about 20 years (the last thing I bought was the WAB supplement Age of Arthur it was that long ago).

As then my preferred period is 5th century to 8th century, so I've started by buying some 28mm minis appropriate to Late Rome or Romano-Britain. I've bought mainly Footsore and Warlord Games but recently added in some 1st Corp and GB Cav. I've avoided Foundry since I wanted to try some new stuff (Foundry was my staple in the late 90s). Also bought some single sprues of GB Plastic and Wargames Atlantic Late Romans just to see how they modelled up.

I'm running into a few issues. The first is painting. I'm finding the paint is really easily chipping and flaking on the metal minis (especially on an edge). I'm using paints by Citadel, Army Painter and Vallejo. I've tried a variety of spray based primers from Citadel, Army Painter and also a grey Halfords one but it seems to make little difference. By comparison, the GB or WA plastic minis the paint never chips or flakes. I'm really wondering what I'm doing wrong.

The second issue is compatability across different ranges. I do like to modify the minis. It's not just the the difference in height but also the build. The Warlord Games Romano-British Cav minis are taller but also far far  more "chunky" than the Footsore. The Footsore RB Cavalry seem very slightly built vs. even their own Late Roman Cav or Byzantine Cav Archers, never mind the 1st Corps RB Cav which are huge compared to them. Is kitbashing not a good idea anymore and units need to be from a single source?

The third is am I missing some better quality manufacturers of minis for this period? They they don't really seem to have progressed in quality terms in the 20 years or so that have passed. The plastic GB and WA aren't hugely impressive. Victrix plastic or some GW Warhammer/LoR minis are way way ahead but clearly there is no Late Roman minis from them. Are there 3d printed Late Roman minis?

Mods: please move this if I've put this in the wrong sub-forum, the period sort of straddles two.

Thanks

[gostgost13]

Victrix have a Romano British/Late Roman range, in the pipeline.    https://www.facebook.com/victrixlimited/photos/pcb.2490554897747056/2490513417751204/

[James Morris]

Hiya, welcome back!  (Age of Arthur was published 15 years ago so it’s not as long as it feels) 😀

Many of the Arthurian type 28mm ranges date from that period so they’re going to be similar to what was going on when you left.  I have cheerfully mixed figures from Foundry, GB, Footsore, Black Tree and West Wind in my units.  I’ve always found that a consistent paint and basing scheme can tie all kinds of minis together on the tabletop. There’s also personal preference in this of course.

The next big leap forwards in this period looks like it’s going to be the Victrix plastics, which have already raised the bar for their other ranges.

Historical coverage of 3d printed models is patchy.  Caballero Miniatures have some absolutely stunning models for the El Cid period, for example.

Painting: you haven’t mentioned if you’re varnishing or not.  I find it essential to varnish metal minis to avoid chipping. There’s various options if you’re not using varnish yet.

Hope that helps a little!

[SJWi]

Workshy, I can't add to much of what James has said. Many ranges eg Foundry, Gripping Beast and Westwind actually date back to the '90s and early 2000s and I sometimes wonder if the moulds are still in good condition. I find most ranges are OK together except for Foundry, which although lovely figures are smaller and slighter as I think they date back to when figures were still 25mm. You are then down to can you mix individual sculpting styles which is very much a personal preference.

I have figures from all the manufacturers you mention and don't have a problem with paint. But as James said I too apply matt varnish.  The choice of varnish and method of application is a whole theme in itself .I use the Warlord Army Painter spray but find the results sometimes patchy. One of my mates swears by the more expensive Winsor and Newton "Professional Matt Varnish". I have also bought the Vallejo brush on product which works well.....and I use this to touch up models which sometimes are still shiny after spraying.  My method is to ensure it is dry weather, don't spray too thickly ( 2 thin coats are better than one thick one) and leave them to dry in a warm/hot place .I use the top of our Aga oven which drives my wife mad! Obviously varnish seals the paint but IMHO also brings out the richness of some colours. Another thing to watch is applying varnish to paper flags. I have had bad experiences where a matt spray seems to react with paper making it go "cloudy". I always hand paint the flag with gloss varnish before applying the matt version.       

[Atheling]

Wargames Foundry do an dated (as in smaller than most more up to date manufacturers) but excellent range.
https://www.wargamesfoundry.com/pages/late-imperial-romans

The Footsore Miniature range is superb.
https://footsoreminiatures.co.uk/collections/late-roman-romano-british-early-byzantine

Black Tree to a range but I would be very cautious as there have been a very high number of reports over many years of people not receiving their miniatures- you can read about that in this thread here on the forum:
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=112741.0

1st Corp do a good range of Romano British:
https://1stcorps.co.uk/product-category/dark-ages/dark-ages-britons/

And of course, to borrow a phrase from the late Mr Duncan Macfarlane of wargames illustrated fame, Gripping Beast, "The doyens of the Dark Ages" to a fabulous ranges of Late Romans and Age of Arthur ranges-
Late Romans:
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Gripping_Beast_Minatures.html
Age of Arthur:
https://www.grippingbeast.co.uk/Age_of_Arthur--category--63.html

If you're looking for enemies for the Age of Arthur supplement then all of the above companies have Picts, Welsh, Irish etc but you will have to do your own digging on that front.

If you prefer plastics then the soon to be released Late Roman//Romano British from Victrix Limited are particularly striking:


The Victrix Late Romans look grand as well:





Basically if you do a google search for 28mm Late Romans you will get a lot of hits and find there's plenty to explore.

[WorkShy]

The Victrix looks ideal and an actual step forward. I really want to be able to mod my minis to create maximum variation. Just how many years before they do the Cav!

So far I've found Footsore the best once painted up but I've already purchased the bulk of their late Roman range over the past month or two. On the internet people seemed to recommend Warlord Games (ex Saxon Minis) Arthurian range so I bought most of their infantry and cav range. The infantry are ok but the cavalry were really disappointing. So chunky and they painted up terribly vs. the Footsore (albeit that really could be a function of my lack of painting talent). I've bought some 1st Corp (Curteys) Arthurian cav and they seem nice but very large vs. the Footsore cav. I also like some of the Aventine minis but they are early Byzantine so not totally appropriate.

The Foundry minis seem basically the same as the ones I had 15-20 years ago. The Gripping Beast are lovely but why oh why do they still have a random selection of cast on shields? I bought some of their range but compared to Footsore, the GB are so inflexible. I've magnetized the Footsore so I can change shields from round to oval or vice versa. I'm not up to slicing off the GB shields and rebuilding them.

With regard to the paint chipping, I haven't varnished many of them since they seem to chip/flake off before I can get around to it. I wonder if the issue might be temperature. I prime in the garage which is damp and cold. Last week I primed some minis by hand using Vallejo Surface Primer and these are not flaking like the others. Clearly though hand priming 100s of minis is unrealistic and I don't think I can get as thin a layer. Might be time to get an airbrush. Might try the spray again if we get some warmer, dryer weather.

Thanks for the feedback

[Atheling]

The Victrix looks ideal and an actual step forward. I really want to be able to mod my minis to create maximum variation. Just how many years before they do the Cav!

Dunno. That's the thing about plastics, they take an awfully long time to go through the production process. Otherwise, they great.

So far I've found Footsore the best once painted up but I've already purchased the bulk of their late Roman range over the past month or two. On the internet people seemed to recommend Warlord Games (ex Saxon Minis) Arthurian range so I bought most of their infantry and cav range.

I've used Footsore (Matthew Bickely), Footsore (Bill Thornhill), Saxon Miniatures (Warlord), Gripping Beast and a host of others in my Anglo Danish units to decent effect- I think if you're careful about how you mix and match then they are fine.

The infantry are ok but the cavalry were really disappointing. So chunky and they painted up terribly vs. the Footsore (albeit that really could be a function of my lack of painting talent). I've bought some 1st Corp (Curteys) Arthurian cav and they seem nice but very large vs. the Footsore cav. I also like some of the Aventine minis but they are early Byzantine so not totally appropriate.

If I'm going to mix and match cavalry units then, as a (sort of) rule of thumb I more often than not, try to stick companies who used the old eBob horse dollies and find they match up exceptionally well. The same standard of horse dollies help to gel the units together. I do know what you mean about the Warlord horses, they seem a bit un-horsey.

The Gripping Beast are lovely but why oh why do they still have a random selection of cast on shields? I bought some of their range but compared to Footsore, the GB are so inflexible. I've magnetized the Footsore so I can change shields from round to oval or vice versa. I'm not up to slicing off the GB shields and rebuilding them.

That's easy enough to answer, they were sculpted that way and it's a very large range to have re-sculpted then remoulded! It would cost a fortune.

With regard to the paint chipping, I haven't varnished many of them since they seem to chip/flake off before I can get around to it. I wonder if the issue might be temperature. I prime in the garage which is damp and cold. Last week I primed some minis by hand using Vallejo Surface Primer and these are not flaking like the others. Clearly though hand priming 100s of minis is unrealistic and I don't think I can get as thin a layer. Might be time to get an airbrush. Might try the spray again if we get some warmer, dryer weather.

Don't get me started on varnish! During the "Great Winsor and Newton Pro Matt Varnish Drought" I was forced to try something else and ouch!!! Never again!

You can see the results on my blog here:
http://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2022/01/varnishing-disaster-help-urgently.html

I usually use the tried and tested methods as outlined on this thread ( reasonable in depth look at varnishing):
http://justaddwater-bedford.blogspot.com/2022/01/varnishing-disaster-help-urgently.html

[valleyboy]

What about Westwind? https://www.westwindproductions.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=192_69_148

[SJWi]

Workshy, no paint or varnish likes cold and/or moisture.  I can track down most of my issues to those factors.

[Maniac]

The Footsore minis are very nice.  I've got a number of their late romans, and they are all excellent.

Gripping Beast's plastics are okay, but a bit limited.  There is not a lot of variety in what you get, and you'll be locked into some similar minis.  Still, they are decent.  Their metals are okay, but prone to GB's flash and miscast issues.

Victrix makes nice minis, but their latest stuff is very challenging to work into 20mmx20mm or 40mmx40mm bases.  They are a bit overly dynamic for unit building, to be honest (well, at least classic style unit building).

[WorkShy]

Atheling. The problem is that you can clearly paint very well and I ... err ... can't. I'm a prime-base-wash-highlight/dry brush, repeat and rinse sort of person. Very mechanical, zero artistry. I find the Footsore minis seem finer detailed, which sort of makes it easier to know where to put the paint. The Warlord games minis have a chunkiness ands less detail which means I seem to need to take some initiative with them, have some imagination on things like shading and highlighting. I fail on that badly.

valleyboy. Does anyone have any better pictures of the Westwind RB minis? Their website has terrible pictures or, as in the case of the Armoured Spearmen, no picture at all.

Maniac. I've noted that 20x20mm is quite a tight fit even for some of the metal minis I've bought. They always seem advertised on a larger, round, base. Seems Saga is very dominant. What is the correct basing for systems like Hail Caeser, Swordpoint, Dux Britanniarum etc? 

[Happy Wanderer]

@Atheling

...beautiful unit of minis there sir...bravo! ;-)

[Atheling]

@Atheling

...beautiful unit of minis there sir...bravo! ;-)

Ta

Atheling. The problem is that you can clearly paint very well and I ... err ... can't.

I don't think the standard of the brushwork is what matters- what matters is the consistency of the standard if you see what I mean?

If you're having trouble with Warlord vs Footsore painted at the same standard, it would seem to invalidate my comments.

[WorkShy]

Quick question: Footsore sell cav units in packs with both 3 (£11) and 4 minis (£14). I bought 2 packs of RB cav, got 8 minis, 6 distinct and 2 were repeats.

Is that the same for all their Late Roman and Goth cav packs?

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I quite like Artizan Designs and Crusader.  The unpainted photographs of them often make them look a little dated, but I fing they piant up well.  I have Saxons and Vikings from both and they mix adequately with Gripping Beast (metal and plastic) and Footsore.  I suspect Victrix will be bigger and possibly not mix well in the same unit.
I have a few Black Tree Design.  I like these and have never had problems with orders but I know this is not the experience of many others.
As far as paint chipping - I find some brands do have difficulty holding paint - Thunderbolt Mountain seems to have this problem for me.