3d print: what went wrong here

[The Voivod]

So, I'm playing around with my new Mars 3.
It's mostly easy to use and pre-supported mini's come out great.
I've also printed a few unsupported mini's on a mars2 pro and they look good.

But now this keeps happening.
My gut tells me I might need to tilt the model a bit more, so I am asking less of the initial supports. It seems to fail at the very beginning. I'd rather not tilt it to much, as this increases printing time, but this is does me no good at all.

The only thing that makes me question my conclusion is that I don't see any starting supports at all.
Anyone more knowledgable able to advise me on this?
Is my conclusion correct? I don't want to oversupport as this leaves to manny scars on the model.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

There are many things that cause failures.

1) Exposure
I don't thing that this is the problem but you should print a test block to check the bottom exposure and normal exposures are correct.

2) Loose FEP
Is the failure in the centre of the bath? I would expect that it is looking at the print.
The bottom of the bath is a plastic film called the FEP. If the FEP is loose, this can cause the supports to fail.
Try tilting the model at 30 or even 45 degrees with the lowest point near the outside walls and the highest point nearer the centre.
This builds the model from a stable base so if a few supports fail, it will not damage the model.
The FEP should be taught like a drum skin, so if it is noticeably loose it needs to be changed.

Support Scars
Take the print off the base plate and wash it in 99% alcohol including supports.
Then wash it in hand hot water with a small amount of dishwash soap.
While it is warm, in the water, you should be able to easily remove the supports without any scaring.
Only cure with UV light after you have removed the supports.

[The Voivod]

Thanks for the reply.

I definitly think it's something I'm doing wrong, instead of anything on the printer.
I printed this model with some others that where pre-supported (and one I allready had a succesfull print of that I supported myself). Apart from this one, which I supported myself and was printing for the first time, the rest succeeded.

The FEP, I'm pretty sure is okay. I did had to replace it last week, because I did something wrong. But it seems tight and gives a nice echo when I talk into the vat (somthing I saw on youtube was a good test). I also have had several succesfull prints since.
After this fail I also printed a batch of small pre-supported stuff and it came out great.

I'll try the warm water tip, but I still feel like not overdoing ot on supports would be best.

I slice the model again. This time I had an angle that gave me no red at all on the slicer, so suction should be minimal, right?
Guess I'll know in 3 hours.

[Mammoth miniatures]

I had something similar where models kept peeling off of the build plate,s tarting from one corner and the whole thing ended up warped.

I found that spraying my FEP with some mould release (the same kind I use on silicone moulds) stopped the issue.

[Silent Invader]

The only time I’ve had a similar issue I’d omitted struts, so the affected area   was unsupported (floating), causing the layers to flop and separate.

[FinnN]

Try levelling again - unless it’s a trick of the camera angle the base looks a lot thicker on the right of the picture than on the left, which can be caused by varying thicknesses between the FEP and build plate.

Although probably not the issue here, sometimes supports can fail due to a weak bond between the pillar and the base. A tip I picked up from the Siraya Tech Discord channel from one of their support people is to use the support type that adds a small cone/chamfer to the base of the pillar which helps a lot with vertical stability.

[The Voivod]

Thanks for all your input.
I think (hope) I found the problem.
Seeing as this is rather flat model, I think it creates to much suction when it pull of the FEP, causing it to pull loose from the buildplate. This will mean it doesn't print a new layer untill sufficient space has been created to stop it from making contact with the FEP again.

Not something I considered, but I have now printed the same model again at a completely different angle. Feeling daring I also added way less supports this time. I adjusted the angle untill the slicer showed me no red what-so-ever. Meaning every layer now had complete support from the last and theoretically I should be able to print it on just one good support. I didn't dare to be quite that bold, though.

I seem to have missed on part on the model as it did not print one tiny corner, but it's the underside, so not to bad and I'll adjust it a next print. But this is how it looks now, for those that are interested.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

That looks like it came out quite well