Is 3D printing the future?

[Inkpaduta]

I seem to see more posts from gamers using 3D printers to make figures and buildings.
Do you think this is more of a fad or is this the future of gaming? Will metal give way to 3D
figures down the road? Thoughts?

[fred]

A very good question!

I have avoided 3D printing so far, as it feels like another hobby in many ways. And at the minute painting progress is fairly slow, so having an easy way to accumulate more figures and terrain doesn’t seem that helpful.

One question for me is longevity and durability, I have metal figures and plastic kits from 40+ years ago and these are still fine. How well do 3D prints hold up over the years?

[robh]

Sadly Yes, but not until 3D resin printing is true "plug and play", No need to mess around with printer settings, supports, slicers, fixers, curing solutions or anything like it.
Switch it on load the print file and select the scale you want then wait for a guaranteed perfect and paint ready resin or rigid plastic miniature to appear. At that point you don't need a manufacturer any more.

Unfortunately this also means the loss of what to me is the most important aspect of wargaming miniatures. Once it is all computer generated it no longer has any artistic merit, no unique or recognisable style or character.

[Kelly_]

Will metal give way to 3D figures down the road?

For some genres, I think the majority of items will, but there will always be a place for metal as detailing items, for more organic shapes, or small scales.  Spartan Games used a mix of metal and resins for their naval games with antennae, superstructures, and turrets being metals, to be placed onto cast resin hulls which was a great solution.  Metal allows a much smaller diameter of objects to be produced than any casting resin or UV printables, and metal detailing kits should always have a place.

How well do 3D prints hold up over the years?

Three and a half years is the oldest print I have, and the issue I have had is not with any degradation or physical changes of the model, but with repair.  Drop a metal / plastic / traditional resin model, and you can bend back any deformations, reglue any minor breakages, or set a new pin for a major breakage.  Each of those materials have regular consistencies throughout, and you can expect breaks at connection points...

...UV resins are not homogenous materials though, most consist of 4-6 different compounds that may differentiate or settle out during the printing process and create failure points throughout the model.  That is also in addition to the nature of 3D printing involving hundreds of microscopic layers that can also be weak points.  Every drop I have had of a 3D print has resulted in a jagged break so irregularly spread across the model it is basically unfixable.

not until 3D resin printing is true "plug and play"

I don't know if 3D printing will ever reach the ease of desktop printing, and I am continually shocked at how many people under 30 do not have a regular ink or laser printer.  You cannot get much easier than removing a plastic strip, plugging it in, and letting a computer run auto-setup to print documents, but that is still intimidating?

Injection plastic and cast resin didn't replace metal when they were introduced, their different properties and economies of scale just allowed new possibilities, and 3D resin printing will find its own niche as well.

[Inkpaduta]

Wow, I didn't realize that 3D printing was so complicated with so many steps.

[FierceKitty]

There is always conservative resistance to new technology, and more awareness of its problems, frequently teething troubles, than of its potential. Yes, horses keep going where cars break down; yes, you can develop a friendship with a horse far beyond what you can feel even for a beautiful old Rolls; yes, horses can be relatively easily produced, and in time recycled. Oddly, cars seem to have supporters for all that.

Me, I'm probably too old to see what 3D printing may yet do, but I've lived to see computers and the IT explosion offer a million benefits for every inconvenience, CDs move from tinny imitations to systems which make you think there's a real string quartet in the room with you, and above all effective domestic espresso machines. Bring it on, sez I.

[Elbows]

I enjoy "some" of what 3D printing offers; mainly the endless variety of sculpts and sculptors, etc.  However...it's still resin, and I still hate working with it, hate when it breaks, hate that it's bad for you when working with it, etc.  I don't like the way it takes paint compared to plastic, etc.

So, for most things I'd still take plastic anyday, even if I owned a 3D printer as I'm not so concerned about the "cost savings".  I like being able to buy random 3D printed figures that catch my eye - but would I buy resin 3D printed...say...tanks that I can buy in plastic?  Nope.

I don't care that I could print an orc for $0.12...if I can buy a box of 10-20 orcs for $20-30...I'd still go with plastic every single time.  So I think 3D printing is great for the hobby, but it doesn't replace well produced plastics - and it'll have a big competitor I think with Siocast which is pretty stunning stuff from the few I have.  I'm anxious to see the Siocast "Hard" or whatever.

Also, I have a fear of the "resin-pocalypse", as some printers who were early adopters have stated their resin became quiet brittle 10 years on.  So, it's entirely possible in 10-15 years time all of our current minis will slowly crumble to garbage...something I needn't worry about with plastic or metal, etc.

In addition, for each nicely printed and painted 3D miniature I've seen, I've seen 10 horribly printed thread-heavy terrible prints gracing the local game store tables, .

I do think it will rightly kill off large resin cast models over time.  Obscene stuff like GW's Forgeworld (which produce pretty awful resin to start with) can't stand up to something that can be printed for 5% the cost and with better accuracy and fit-n-finish, etc.

[beefcake]

Well as I have a 3d printing business you'd think I'm biased, I can see it from both sides easily though. I still love metal minis over any other substance but do plan on getting a resin printer some time, I only have an FDM printer (well multiple). The big plus for me living down here in NZ is that shipping is always a killer for getting things so files being sent for free is a very nice substitute.
I love it for printing scenery, being able to sculpt my own scenery for what I want and then make some cash off it is great. Saying that, there is also that great sense of satisfaction when you make your own from balsa, airdrying clay etc etc.
I can say it will become more and more commonplace when the tech becomes easier but I think there will need to be a better solution to resin printing which is quite toxic and can put an immediate put off to people.
It does become a hobby of it's own but to be honest, sorting an issue on your printer is still a lot quicker than waiting for the postie to deliver your items (well at least this far away)

[War Monkey]

I see a lot of potential for 3D printers, as for myself I like scratch building things which makes them unique to me. Yes, there are somethings that I see that having a printer would be great for, vehicles for the most part. As for figures, I like a lot of what suppliers have out there. If I feel the need for a figure, I can also sculpt it or add putty to one I already have on hand. I mean what else are you going to do while you're waiting for a printer to finish?

[ced1106]

For RPG players, 3D printing is the only way to have a model that looks "like my character" if you have a character that wears unusual clothing, weapons, familiar, etc. Most gamers don't care about non-gaming appearance, but some RPG'ers have been playing their character for years and can spend $40 on one model, because it's the only model they will play.

Some miniature skirmish games have different stats for different weapons and armor. For example, for Lasting Tales, I have an elf ranger with a spear and crossbow. Not a classic pose. Multipiece or magnetic miniatures with interchangeable parts works, those lose the dynamic pose conventional miniatures have, and the cost of the pieces and magnets is high. So 3D printing would fit though, again, many gamers don't care much if the miniature looks slightly different than the stat block.

Armies I think won't change. The game systems either tell you what models of the company's game line to use (eg. GW), or are miniatures agnostic so don't care. Troops are unlikely to use unusual loadouts.

For RPG GM's, I think it will be cheaper plastics, such as Bones, for generic fantasy minions in quantity and stereotypical monsters. So for my goblins, I only care that I have some melee weapons, some ranged weapons, and a spellcaster and leader-type. Anything more detailed doesn't really matter.

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

I have written two articles about 3D printing and wargaming.
The first is a practical how to use a resin printer and is called “Print your Tanks at Home”. This was published in Military Miniature Magazine 201 in January 2022.
The second article is about how 3D printing is changing the wargames industry. This article is called “3D - A Revolution for Wargaming” and was published in Military Miniature Magazine 202,this month, April 2022.
Both can be found here.
https://militaryminiature.com/

3D printing offers very quick times from idea to wargames table.
You can have an idea, download the STL files and print within 3 hours. You do not have any postage costs.

Small Tanks
When the Ukraine war started, I printed some 1/150 scale tanks and AFVs that I printed using the free Bergmann STL files. I have two each of T72, T64, BMP2, BTR80 and BRDM. These have had a quick paintjob and are perfect for gaming. I can print about 3 vehicles at a time, which averages out as about one per 45 minutes. So for a day's printing, you can create quite a sizable force.

28mm Figures
Last weekend, I bought a squad of Russian Federation troops as STL files on line at Wargaming3d.com and downloaded them in seconds. These files initially work out expensive as US$2.60 per figure, but you can print multiples of each design.
https://www.wargaming3d.com/product/russianf-squad01/
It took five minutes to prepare the files for printing. I printed them as 28mm figures on an Anycubic Photon using Tough Resin. Two hours later, I had 10 current Russian Federation soldiers. There was no waiting, no cutting sprues, no clean up, and no assembly. The printed 28mm figures cost about US$ 0.13 in consumables, so about one fifteenth of the equivalent metal figure. As they are made from tough resin, they are quite durable - better than metal miniatures if you drop them. I primed them with black acrylic Gesso and painted them like normal wargames figures.

12mm Figures
As an experiment, I also printed the same files at 12mm tall to match the 1/150 tanks. This worked but some of the weapons are very thin and delicate, even in Tough Resin. However, I am sure that all the files would print very well at 20mm.

The Future
Technology is already available to scan real life objects and turn them into 3D objects. It is theoretically possible that Paul Hicks or the Perry Brothers could scan their greens and sell the STL files. This would enable traditional manufacturers in Nottingham to supply figures to Australia and USA with no postage costs and in seconds. The same files could be printed as 28mm or 20mm figures. This business model does not exist today, but it could do within a year or two.

[fred]

Sounds like you are very much setup and have a workflow for 3D printing Mick.

Are the articles you mention available directly, or do you have to subscribe to the magazine to read them?

[Mick_in_Switzerland]

Dear Fred,

You can buy single issues of the magazine from the website link.

The website shows me that a copy is CHF 7.00, so I guess the English price will be about £5.60.

You can read about my 3D printing journey in my Vietnam Project thread here.
https://leadadventureforum.com/index.php?topic=123801.90

Best Regards


Mick

[FramFramson]

The cheapest way to mass-produce is always going to involve some form of casting. At least, this is still true of many many industries outside our little gaming nice.

So for large or even some moderate-sized manufacturers it really won't matter if the prototype is hand-sculpted or machine-made. They can have their preferences and preferred artists. Good 3D sculptors will better use the tools to create sculptures with qualities as good as any hand-sculpted ones anyway - the best are the best and that often transcends the medium, though certainly artists have their preferences.

So I wouldn't worry about losing individualistic or characterful minis. It's just what you tend to see in a mediocre or bad sculpt is different for digital versus hand-sculpted. You can after all see that already with minis we have right now - stiff and awkward robo-figures versus blobby gnarled misshapen lumps; we just notice the robo-figures more because they're a bit newer.

But minis are not only a business, they are still an artistic project subject to what their creator feels will best help them produce the results they want to see. While many conventional 2D artists have moved to digital or make use of digital components in their work even if it's conventional, there is still no shortage of conventional work being done. People have not stopped using pens and paper and paints and the like! And there's really no reason that won't be true for miniatures as well.

[fred]

Thanks Mick - loads of good 3D printing info on your Vietnam thread (and loads of cool models too).

I’m feeling you need a chunk of dedicated space for 3D printing. As the printer needs to sit somewhere, you need to be able to wash models in alcohol and space for UV hardening. Feels like at least 2’-3’ of space as a minimum - and probably space like a kitchen counter top that can be wiped down from any spills?

What about noise and smells?