Russian Uniforms in Central Asia

[Will Bailie]

Greetings, gentlemen and ladies,

I have acquired some Russian troops ca 1880 to expand my NWF gaming potential - specifically to allow alternate history Anglo-Russian Great Game conflicts!  I like the idea of Russians with white gymnastica and green trousers, unfortunately, I have only seen this look on painted wargames figures.  Can anyone provide some other sources that I can check out to confirm (or counter) this uniform?  I would prefer on-line sources as I am hundreds of miles from the nearest library, and if I order books by mail they will likely take more than one month (maybe two) before they get here.

Thanks!

Will

[former user]

I remember to have seen this uniform in "Turkish Gambit", that is set 1877.
the Cossacks had blue Kuban dress

however it is only a movie

[Gluteus Maximus]

Greetings, gentlemen and ladies,

I have acquired some Russian troops ca 1880 to expand my NWF gaming potential - specifically to allow alternate history Anglo-Russian Great Game conflicts!  I like the idea of Russians with white gymnastica and green trousers, unfortunately, I have only seen this look on painted wargames figures.  Can anyone provide some other sources that I can check out to confirm (or counter) this uniform?  I would prefer on-line sources as I am hundreds of miles from the nearest library, and if I order books by mail they will likely take more than one month (maybe two) before they get here.

Thanks!

Will

I could have given you full details, but I have misplaced my Blandford "Uniforms Of Imperial Russia". Cost a small fortune, too 

If I recall correctly, they wore white tunics, red trousers and standard jackboots, cap etc in Persia, but my memory is shocking lately 

If I find it I'll PM you a full description.

[argsilverson]

Askari miniatures has a painting guide for them:

http://www.askari-minis.com/webstore/product_info.php?cPath=44&products_id=114

to follow up what Gluteus Maximus wrote:
The cap is a kepi covered in white (also neckcover in white) and black belts.

Askari miniatures in their website have painted examples, good for start

[former user]

damn!
even more russian cavalry...

how do Askari miniatures go with Copplestone, Empress and Brigade??

[Will Bailie]

Thanks for the comments.  White shirts and RED trousers?  Any clues where the green trousers would have come from, as shown here:
http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_item.php?c=27&oc=30
Or did they change their uniforms between 1877 and 1900?  See, this is why I want a better justification than, "well, this other guy painted them like that!"

Also, the figures I have are wearing the peaked cap (forgot the Russian name), rather than the Havelock-looking kepi, are these guys legit for 1880-ish?

Askari miniatures fit in ok with other figures, maybe a touch on the small side but not enough to bother me.  I'm more concerned with the stiff, "toy soldier" poses.  I only have French figures, can't comment on the Russians.



As always, thanks for the advice

W

The Askari figures are the Zouave and the Legionaire.  I quite like the Zouaves, they are a key part of my WWI French army, but I'm not so keen on the Legion.

[former user]

thx for the pics
yep, they look a bit undernourished, but the proportions are right, so never mind I have more Russian Cavalry to choose from...


about the differing caps and the pants -
I could imagine a difference between standing army and conscripts/reservists  ?
... or different regimental/arms uniform?
I know 3 movies about that period where the difference exists

I know for instance that at that time in Romania this difference existed.

But this is not knowledge, just guess

[Gluteus Maximus]

Thanks for the comments.  White shirts and RED trousers?  Any clues where the green trousers would have come from, as shown here:
http://www.oldgloryuk.com/disp_item.php?c=27&oc=30
Or did they change their uniforms between 1877 and 1900?  See, this is why I want a better justification than, "well, this other guy painted them like that!"

Also, the figures I have are wearing the peaked cap (forgot the Russian name), rather than the Havelock-looking kepi, are these guys legit for 1880-ish?

Possibly the red trousers were intended for a specific campaign, as was British practice with the various campaign-specific uniforms prior to the general adoption of  standardised khaki? Ditto the cap and havelock, although they wore both peaked cap and kepi in the Russo-Turkish war, so maybe a mixture was possible. Maybe the white tunic and green trousers combo was the usual hot weather dress within the Russian territory?

I'm hoping someone more knowledgable can give us a definitive answer as I'm also intrigued by this question now 

[argsilverson]

OK guys!
Blandford Colour series book by Boris Mollo (published 1979) on Imperial Russian Uniforms says that red trousers-white shirt (gimnasterka) and kepi (shapka) with flaps was the tropical uniform for the units stationed in Turkestan. They had to adopt a new uniform, appropriate for the tropical climate.

I have seen somewhere that this uniform did not survive for long.

As for red trousers: Seems to be of local manufacture. Book says
"the trousers are of buffalo-skin dyed red known by Turkomen name chamari "
Since Mollos are authorities on the subject I take their word for those infos.

[Will Bailie]

OK, that sounds pretty authorative.  Thanks, Argsilverson!

[former user]

thx @A

now red leather pants are surely the first thing I shall put on next time when I'm in Sudan....
seems the obvious choice

thousands of Russians can't be wrong right?  (-;

[argsilverson]

leather pants in Sudan? I am afraid hey will be ripped off immediately!

I believe they chose the leather pants just for extra protection (thorns, sharp rocks, low temperature at nigh etc)
But, I don't believe that the supplying corps of the time, was very effective on its choices! It seems that they were left without any supplies and they had to do something. They bought locally available materials. What they found: leather/buffalo-skin, so they immediately arrange for a good contract with some local suppliers to dye them red and make pants.

Another reason for the red colours at least in Turkestan. Traditional colour of the Russian uniforms was dark green. Turkestan had a majority of muslim population and green is a sacred colour for muslims. Maybe they wanted to change the colour, because muslims claimed that infidels should not wear green.

However, there is some similar uniform used in Russian-Turkish war . I doubt if the pants were of leather.

[former user]

"for extra protection (thorns, sharp rocks, low temperature at nigh etc)"

wouldn't be different in Sudan, but bloody warm
I was trying to joke

actually leather is not that bad a choice, since pants are the first thing going to rags on campaign..

wouldn't go so far about the green and the infidels though

nobody murdered me in Sudan when I wore green and they have sharia there...

[HerbyF]

The Russians did change the uniforms in the later 1890s at least in Siberia. Green tunics with green trousers, white tunics for summer wear. A white non-peaked white cap was the head gear. Line & rifle units were distinguished by the color of their shoulder bars. This was the uniform in the far east in use at the time of the boxer rebellion. For the 1880s in the near east they still wore the kepi with a white over cloth white tunics with red trousers.

[Stéphane]

I've got a picture about russian in central asia in fall XIXth century:



Stéphane