Victrix Persians in a Bactrian army?

[Haak0n]

Hi!

I have been eying the ancients range at Victrix for a while, and I can resist no longer. Never been a fan of metal miniatures, and  their minis look both nice and affordable.

Their Persian range seems rather nice, but is appareantly best suited for the greco-persian wars etc. In my mind, making a mixed force of these Persians and various Greek units is fine, but I'm not really sure.

What do the good people here at Lead Adventure think

- Haakon

[Easy E]

Do it! 

[AdamPHayes]

Greek Mercenaries were an important part of later Achaemenid Persian armies (on the “if you can’t beat them, join them” basis I assume...)

Some of the western Anatolian contingents also seem to have had quite Greek influenced kit, which is perfect for mix and match possibilities with plastic figures.

[Jjonas]

Are you talking about the Bactrians of the time of Cyrus the great or Bactrians from the Successor era?
The horse archers will work for both periods. Bactrians and Sogdians are shown with different jackets and pants than the typical Victrix Sparabara Persians. As others have stated - even during the Persian Wars Greeks served as Allies mercenaries and subject troops in Persian armies.
Mercenary Greeks were left behind in Bactria by Alexander the Great. They became the core of the Bactrian Greek kingdoms. Their troops would have started out like hoplites but over time they shift to the thureos or pike phalanx is assumed.

The problem is always that most sets don’t have the range to create the subtle differences in gear associated with these sub groups. Many Bactrians are shown with wide brimmed Boeotian style helmets- something you are not going to find on a Victrix Greek hoplite sprue except the Theban set. However there are some folks that make resin heads for Victrix swaps. If they were to make some Bactrian heads with helmets and kausia hats that would be cool.

[Haak0n]

Are you talking about the Bactrians of the time of Cyrus the great or Bactrians from the Successor era?
The horse archers will work for both periods. Bactrians and Sogdians are shown with different jackets and pants than the typical Victrix Sparabara Persians. As others have stated - even during the Persian Wars Greeks served as Allies mercenaries and subject troops in Persian armies.
Mercenary Greeks were left behind in Bactria by Alexander the Great. They became the core of the Bactrian Greek kingdoms. Their troops would have started out like hoplites but over time they shift to the thureos or pike phalanx is assumed.

The problem is always that most sets don’t have the range to create the subtle differences in gear associated with these sub groups. Many Bactrians are shown with wide brimmed Boeotian style helmets- something you are not going to find on a Victrix Greek hoplite sprue except the Theban set. However there are some folks that make resin heads for Victrix swaps. If they were to make some Bactrian heads with helmets and kausia hats that would be cool.

I see I should have been a little precise. I was mainly thinking about the Bactrians from the successor era. I did not know that Greek hoplites were left behind in Bactria by Alexander. I just assumed that the Greek component of Bactrian armies would be phalangites, companion cavalry etc.

Although a Persian army with Greek hoplites do sound interesting, and perhaps easier to achieve with the plastic kits from Victrix.

[AdamPHayes]

Many Bactrians are shown with wide brimmed Boeotian style helmets- something you are not going to find on a Victrix Greek hoplite sprue except the Theban set. However there are some folks that make resin heads for Victrix swaps. If they were to make some Bactrian heads with helmets and kausia hats that would be cool.

It was a cheap box of Victrix Theban hoplites that galvanised my adventure up into Bactrian Greeks, making full use of all the Boeotian helmets. 3D printing might now be the way to add very distinctive regional variations to basic Greek figures...

[Jjonas]

Here are some references for Bactrian Greek Successors:

1- A king and dismounted cavalryman (ignore the Galatian on the right)

2- A group of Bactrians based on coins

3- A more detailed rendering Shield emboss may be exaggerated from coin art

4- King's wide brimmed Boeotian helmet

5- various coin references of Bactrian infantry cavalry and leaders

[Cyrus1]

There is an excellent two part Montvert book by Valerii Nikonorov, The Armies of Bactria 700 BC - 450 AD which has some of the illustrations Jeff posted. It is out of print but you might be able to pick it up second hand from Abebooks or similar dealers.

[arshak]

Just as an integration to what has been already said, the figure with shield with thunder(?) design (on the r. in the second and third image) is taken from this, which is a unique image:

http://warfare.ga/Ancient/Bactrian_Greek-Terracotta_plaque-Warrior-Kampyr-tepe.htm

the helmet is clearly not Beotian, although on coins Greek kings of the region (Graeco-Bactrians & Indo-Greeks, making together c. 250 years of rule) are invariably wearing Beotian helmets, no exception (and there are quite a few kings depicted in war attire).

[Jjonas]

Yes this is from a terra cotta image. Thankyou of reminding me where I could find this link and paper.

Image Source: “New Terracottas from North Bactria” by Galina A. Pugačenkova, pp. 49-67 East and West Vol. 42, No. 1 (March 1992)

Kampyr Tepe is situated in the Surkhan Darya region, about 30 km. west of Termez (ancient North-Western Bactria, modern Southern Uzbekistan).

No. 1 (PI. XIVa and Fig. 2) (from Tower 2 of the citadel). On this moulded terracotta plaque is the single figure of a warrior in low relief. He stands under an arch. The body is shown frontally with head and legs in profile turned to the right. He wears a corselet and cuisses in the shape of a skirt; a helmet is on his head and the legs are covered with greaves. He holds the typical Greek short sword of stretched rhombic shape (xiphos) in his right hand and protects himself with a large oval shield. Who is represented here? Pugachenkova, who first published the plaque, thinks that a Roman soldier is being depicted and dates it to the first half of the second century A.D. (Pugachenkova, 1989b; 1989c: 19-21 ). However, this plaque was found in a deposit above which were two layers, and above these in turn was discovered a silver coin of the Graeco-Bactrian king Eucratides (c. 170-145 B.C.) in the plaster of a wall levelled in the Kushan period. Thus, the reign of Eucratides is likely to be the latest period for our terracotta. In addition, items of a warrior's equipment such as the sword-xiphos and the spiked helmet would have been unusual for Roman soldiers. In our opinion, this warrior is equipped with the Hellenistic military outfit: not Roman. This is clear from an analysis of the defensive weapons (see below). This plaque, like other terracottas, served as a small icon, in this case for the worship of a certain local divine (?) hero.

Pugachenkova, G. A., 1989b “Rimskii voin na terrakotovoi plitke iz Kampyrtepa”, Obshchestvennye nauki v Uzbekistane, No. 4, (Tashkent), 55-7.
---, 1989c. “V poiske kul'turriykh tsennostei proshlogo”, Antichnye i rannesrednevekovye drevnosti . . . , 7-28.

Source: “New Data on Ancient Bactrian Body-Armour (in the light of finds from Kampyr Tepe)” by Valeri P. Nikonorov and Serge A. Savchuk (St. Petersburg and Tashkent) in IRAN Volume XXX 1992


Referenced as figure 24a on p.10 in The Armies of Bactria 700BC-450AD Volume 2 (Illustrations) by Valerii P Nikonorov
Figure 24: (a) Terracotta plaque from the citadel of Kampyr-tepe, found in a context dating to the first half of 2nd century BC, which depicts a well-armed warrior standing under an arch (after Nikonorov V P, Savchuk S A, 1992, p.50, Fig 2); see Pl 3A as his reconstruction. G A Pugachenkova (in Obshchestvennye nauki v Uzbekistane 1989, no 4, pp.55-57) has expressed an opinion that this is the image of a Roman soldier on the plaque belonging to the first half of 2nd century AD (?). Her conclusion cannot be accepted, above all because of the above archaeological context of this find. On the other hand, the warrior's outfit assemblage - a spiked helmet, plain cuirass, typical Greek thigh-defence called pteryges which consists of narrow strips made up in two rows (the upper one being much shorter than the lower), large oval shield going back to the thyreos type, and finally distinctive Greek straight sword-xiphos with a short blade of the stretched rhombic form - appears to be of Hellenistic rather than of Roman inspiration.

http://warfare.6te.net/Ancient/Bactrian_Greek-Terracotta_plaque-Warrior-Kampyr-tepe.htm

The above link was not blocked by my virus detector.

[Jjonas]

Bactrian_Greek-Terracotta_plaque-Warrior-Kampyr-tepe
For those who don't want to look at the link:

[Haak0n]

Thanks for all the help. You guys are great 

It seems that making a kind of accurate Bactrian army will be harder than I thought, and it will require some kitbashing and buying different minis from different ranges.

The information you have posted is quite interesting and helpful, which makes feel bad as I changed my mind and ordered a box of Samnite warriors instead  I had a good look at the Carthaginian range of minis over at Victrix, and since the Carthaginian army was composed of all kinds of different mercenaries and units, I have a lot of options. That way I can order most, if not everything I need over at Victrix for a decent price and it's all plastic.

[Jjonas]

Good luck with Samnites

I think you came to a correct conclusion. Making a Bactrian Greek army is a bit of a deep dive and tough to make with “off the shelf” 28mm figures. It can done but a lot searching an converting will be needed. 15mm has a lot more selection in all areas. I’m glad the references helped you with your decision. I keep wanting to make that embossed shield design but that’s a project that I keep shelving.