Early plate armour and use of shields - question.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

I have been reading the Christian Cameron books about William Gold, set in the mid to late 14th Century.
I am toying with getting some figures for skirmish gaming.
I am trying to work out what the role of shields is.  Frequently long swords are employed so no shield in use, but then there are often references to shields in use.  Would a knight typically have a shield for use with an arming sword or other single handed weapon and either sling it on the back or hand off to a squire when wanting to use a long sword?  Were shields still used in mouted combat.

A ot of the story has urban skirmishes as the characters go about their daily business (they seem to have a lot of enemies!!).  Is there a range of miniatures that has armed but unarmoured city gents?

Thanks

[Charlie_]

In the mid to late 14th century shields would still be in use by fully armoured knights, yes. Two-handed weapons would be very popular too at that time (spears, axes, longswords, etc), and as the decades went on two-handed polearms would become more and more popular, and shields would see less and less use, as plate armour developed to be even more protective.

For the mid 14th century, lets say 1350, if you had a bunch of fully armoured knights fighting on foot, it would probably be reasonable to assume a mix of two-handed weapons and sword (or other hand weapon) with shield.

[Atheling]

In the mid to late 14th century shields would still be in use by fully armoured knights, yes. Two-handed weapons would be very popular too at that time (spears, axes, longswords, etc), and as the decades went on two-handed polearms would become more and more popular, and shields would see less and less use, as plate armour developed to be even more protective.

For the mid 14th century, lets say 1350, if you had a bunch of fully armoured knights fighting on foot, it would probably be reasonable to assume a mix of two-handed weapons and sword (or other hand weapon) with shield.

I concur with Charlie though I would include all men at arms of any class on foot would carry a shield if not using a weapon that required the use of two hands. Even then the shield might just be slung behind the back. Ditto if mounted though obviously sans two handed weapon.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Thank you both. 

[Charlie_]

[Atheling]

And from the same battle (Castagnaro 1387CE):

[Tim Haslam]

Are those photos from the actual battle! 

[Aethelflaeda was framed]

I find the contemporary painting to be rather dubious.  Estocs would have been wielded as a thrusting weapon looking for chinks and weak points, the depicted slashes and cut posture to deliver them would have been useless against a fully armoured foe.  As for how the shield would have entered into it, i think that it might not have been used up front against an equally armoured foe in loose order fencing melees as depicted, as it limited your reach for any thrust with the point.  The shields would have been useful as later sword and buckler tactics proved in later periods against pike hedges but not in the chaotic melee depicted here.  I think even with the single handed swords the fighters would quickly have gone to a spear like two handed grips with one hand on the blade at the mid point of the weapon and the other on the hilt, and discarded the shield.

[Hans von Berlichingen]

I have been reading the Christian Cameron books about William Gold, set in the mid to late 14th Century.
I am toying with getting some figures for skirmish gaming.
I am trying to work out what the role of shields is.  Frequently long swords are employed so no shield in use, but then there are often references to shields in use.  Would a knight typically have a shield for use with an arming sword or other single handed weapon and either sling it on the back or hand off to a squire when wanting to use a long sword?  Were shields still used in mouted combat.

A ot of the story has urban skirmishes as the characters go about their daily business (they seem to have a lot of enemies!!).  Is there a range of miniatures that has armed but unarmoured city gents?

Thanks

Heater shields as being discussed were used a lot still in the 14th century in warfare, not so much in urban violence, for that you would see sword and buckler more. You also see longsword showing up as a civilian and military side arm as well as falchions and Messers.

Heater shields usually have a guige or neck strap that let's you hang it off your neck and shoulder for riding. When you ride with one you just grab the reins and one of the straps but it's mostly hanging. If you do some sparring using a heater like that it's pretty easy to transition back and forth. You can even do halfswording actions and the shield just hangs there and guards your left side and armpit which is a pretty important opening for armoured combat.

The dissappearance of shields by knights is kinda interesting because they start showing up again in the 15th century carried with full plate among the Venetians and the Hungarian Black Army as well as some places in Germany... maybe it was due to guns growing popular or just as added deflecting power?

[Freddy]

The dissappearance of shields by knights is kinda interesting because they start showing up again in the 15th century carried with full plate among the Venetians and the Hungarian Black Army as well as some places in Germany... maybe it was due to guns growing popular or just as added deflecting power?

Hungarian Black Army carried a lots of shields, large pavises mostly. They used them as makeshift barricades, often not even held by hand but by a stake. Black Army tactics was a hammer&anvil one, infantry providing a solid base (not just shields but even Hussite cart forts+a lot of gunners and crossbowmen) while heavy cavalry doing the shock attack, light cavalry the support and the harrassment. A more mobile infantry wolud have carried lighter shields or none at all.

[Ethelred the Almost Ready]

Thanks for the last two posts.  Very informative.

[player]

I believe that the reason the Hungarians and other eastern European knights continued to use shields was to protect against the archery of the ottomans

[Freddy]

I believe that the reason the Hungarians and other eastern European knights continued to use shields was to protect against the archery of the ottomans

Yes, I also wanted to add this- Ottomans had a lot of archer troops, handguns only started to appear in larger numbers in the early 1500s in their army.