Do Perry plastic Mahdists boxes come with a minimum amount of riflemen?

[olicana]

Hi, I'm asking this because I'm trying to sort out quite a big plastic / metal order for Perry.

I don't want to buy extra riflemen in metal if rifles in plastic packs are compulsory, and I don't want to replace compulsory plastic riflemen with metal spears / swords (though a few mixed in won't hurt) if they are not. 

I don't normally buy Perry plastic so I've no idea what comes in a pack. However, given my Beja and Ansar infantry order (at about 2/5 plastic) already tops £800, this might be a costly mistake to make.

That £800 cost excludes rifle only skirmish units - I have 8 boxes of Beja / Ansar plastics in the basket: I really need advice, thanks.

[Hobgoblin]

I don't think there are any compulsory riflemen - you can make two per 10-man sprue and one from each of the three command sprues. So you've got a maximum of six riflemen per box and a minimum of none.

This is the main sprue - it makes up to eight spearmen, plus two swordsmen and/or riflemen, to a total of 10:



You can see the command sprue here:

[gostgost13]

Wonder where the riflemen ,keep their cartridges ?

[olicana]

Hobgoblin, thanks. That is what I was hoping. It makes things much easier to work out. I'm trying to buy a basic Sudan collection as a 'one box purchase'. Boats and specials will have to come later.

Currently, the combined British / Mahdist order has just topped £1650. I still have the Mahdist cavalry,  combined artillery and command to work out, and I might even be able to up the British infantry a bit.

I'm planning on doing the Brits (all metal) in 36 man units (4 Brit, 1 Egyptian, 2 Sudanese, plus a naval contingent of 18). The Mahdist spears (about 3/5 metal) will be in 60 man units (5 Beja, 8 Ansar). Mahdist skirmishing rifles (all metal, thanks to your info) will be in 18s (7 units, split 3 - 4).

If I do 2 British infantry units in plastic (100%) I will add a unit of Sikhs (metal), and I might be able to afford another (possibly a smaller 24 man KRRC unit) - we'll see. Cavalry (all metal) are going to be in 12s because they (Brits) seem to be about 1/3 infantry strength and I can't see why the Mahdists can't be about the same. Camelry (metal) will be in 18s for both sides, too. I've calculated for three cavalry and a camel unit for the Brits; I'm thinking five and two for the Mahdists - hmmm.

I did think about basing things on a 24 man British unit (my usual go to) but, it doesn't seem to work with the small numbers of units involved (in most 1885-ish battles) and making brigade squares where one unit might form both sides of a corner. I know Peter Gilder did 72 man units for the Sudan - but, that's just silly!

[Armstrong47]

Some very impressive numbers. Looking forward to following your progress over on your blog.
Great stuff

[LeadLust]

Maybe it's my eyes, but I see 24 arms per twelve (12) man rank and file sprue on the blue pic Hobgoblin posted. As two of these hold rifles, it would mean 6 of 36 rank and file per box file would have rifles (unless you plan on conversions). The command sprues allow choice but the rank and file sprues appear not to.

[Hobgoblin]

Maybe it's my eyes, but I see 24 arms per twelve (12) man rank and file sprue on the blue pic Hobgoblin posted. As two of these hold rifles, it would mean 6 of 36 rank and file per box file would have rifles (unless you plan on conversions). The command sprues allow choice but the rank and file sprues appear not to.

Whoops! Yes, you're quite right - don't know why I thought it was 10 (possibly because I've built no riflemen from the sole sprue I have - though kitbashing may explain that ...).

Hope that hasn't caused any inconvenience!

[Deedles]

Looking forward to seeing this develop - sounds interesting…

[Jack Jones]

@ olicana That’s an impressive and ambitious plan. I think my project has cost around £1,500 so far, for 235 Hadendowa (a mix of plastic and metal) and 231 Empire, with another 48 to add in due course (contingents of 15th Sikhs and mounted infantry/Camel Corps) … not all deployed at the same time, obvs, and a number of scenic items.

@ gostgost13: Some of the metal riflemen have cartridge belts (presumably looted from fallen Egyptian soldiers).

I made some conversions, including these plastic fellows:




More on my blog.

Cheers
JJ

[italwars]

In my not humble opinion, and from personal experience , at the end,  you'll risk to feel tired to field the whole Ansar  fire armed force made out of Perry Plastic advancing figures in a kind  of marauding pose that remind me pheasant hunters ...THe advancing pose it's Ok for masses of spear armed natives but you'll then need some suitable figures, in more static poses,  to be fielded, acting as skirmishers, behind cover and bushes. Mahdist forces where progressivly more and more armed with muskets/rifles. For example the Ansar armies that were succsefully confronted by Italians, Belgians and even French at Fashoda were mostly armed with firearms..in my opinion you'll need more than half figures of your musket armed force  in firing positions..possibly even kneeling ones..you could also choose among less expensive but excellent musket /rifles armed castings from Essex, Old Glory and  Bicorne/Conoisseur that offer both Bejas and Arab types in good firing positions. Even the old Minifigs one, that you could find second hand at bargain prices, have, among their colonial sudan range, a suitable kneeling firing  pose which is, actually, a 28mm and compatible with other modern ranges.

[Plynkes]

the Ansar armies that were succsefully confronted by Italians, Belgians and even French at Fashoda were mostly armed with firearms.

If you are interested in the Rejaf, Fashoda and Omdurman era, this isn't the kit for you anyway. None of the figures in it are suitable for that period.

In fact the Perry range isn't designed for that era at all, and discounting command figures, there are only two packs in their range I can think of that are suitable for it at all.

[Jack Jones]

@ italwars I have a third of my Hadendowa armed with rifles, in a range of poses including quite a lot actually firing.

[italwars]

If you are interested in the Rejaf, Fashoda and Omdurman era, this isn't the kit for you anyway. None of the figures in it are suitable for that period.

In fact the Perry range isn't designed for that era at all, and discounting command figures, there are only two packs in their range I can think of that are suitable for it at all.

Partially true because the Ansar armies sent to those far borders of the Mahdist Empire of terror were also composed by more or less allied tribes and also by loaned slaver armies  (enslaving and pillage were the main activities of the Ansar Armies that' the reason why they had some difficulties in being seen as agreeable people by the African populace they met) which number could be feed up also with those less clad plastic guys...for what concern Eritrean frontier the Beja looking guys of the plastic set are absoltuly similar to the  tribes of that very area..some of which, according to my Italian sources, where recruited by the Emir's invading army.
By the way, the only real looking "modern Ansar" are, in my opinion, the Mahdist Arab figures by Essex 25mm (28mm in fact) ones..all in Jibbah , variation of headgear/heads  including the late totally shaded heads and BL captured weapons.

[italwars]

If you are interested in the Rejaf, Fashoda and Omdurman era, this isn't the kit for you anyway. None of the figures in it are suitable for that period.

In fact the Perry range isn't designed for that era at all, and discounting command figures, there are only two packs in their range I can think of that are suitable for it at all.

[VonAkers]

Olicana
Mate do NOT buy the Perry Plastic Mahdists, you will only be disapointed..
I love Perry Miniatures , but That Box was one of the First Plastics they did , and they are just not very nice ...worse they are all  mostly crouched forward. in a really "funny""  way 
The metals on the other Hand are Superb ...!! Get those !!!!!!
They mix in Very well with Castaway Arts Mahdists , in Particular the Fuzzys are Wonderfull , and slot right into the Perrys size and style wise .
Cheers