WIP Uller with side mounted 88 mm gun

[Agis]

PzKpf VII Uller Ausführung M “Rhino”

This Uller variant is mentioned in DP9s book “Fighting Vehicles of the Modern Age.

This Uller variant, based on a similar Donner model, was armed with a powerful 88mm gun. The cannon was mounted in a fixed position in the main hull, with aiming being taken care of by the suspension.
The model was never officially released, the conversion proposed is pictured above.


Since DP9 is currently starting to make some additional walkers (Shiki - YES!!!) and weapons, it may be possible to get them into producing some additional guns.
I scratch build the above shown side mounted 88mm gun. (Just a mock up at the moment)

Since I am biased here, what do YOU think?
Is the side mounted gun cooler?

[Hauptgefreiter]

As the side-mounted gun reminds me of the Luther, which I like a lot, go on with it! 

[Westfalia Chris]

Difficult thing. Both options look great, although the back-mounted one seems a bit more "realistic" for issues of recoil. I wouldn´t mind the side-mounted option for anything of 50mm or smaller calibre, but I´m having difficulty with the 88.

For pure awesome stonkin´ness (TM), it´s a keeper, of course.

Apart from that, the back/top variant would make it easier for the thing to snipe out of hiding, not needing to expose the whole upper body. But that would involve using common sense in a pulp Nazi design, and we cannot have that, nein.

Edit again: Nice try biasing the poll by not making us want to hurt your feelings with that "scratchbuilt crap" thing. I voted for the top variant for the aforementioned reason and not because I consider the conversion "crap".

[Agis]

Thanks for the constructive comments!
As far as re-coil is considered; Robert of DP9 explained the issue to me: " The walker can always lean forward to absorb the recoil!"
 
Easy, or?
 

[Westfalia Chris]

Thanks for the constructive comments!
As far as re-coil is considered; Robert of DP9 explained the issue to me: " The walker can always lean forward to absorb the recoil!"
 
Easy, or?
 

Errr... I always thought the Canadians still had a working educational system that teaches basic understanding of physics, don´t they? 

[former user]

this is SF

take the side mount

[CompanyB]

Would you not need a counter weight for that size of a gun on the other side of the mech?  Maybe a secondary weapon system that has to extend out to provide more precise aiming.  Could also be a be a cool extension that only extends when fired.

[former user]

OK, if You want physics 

A cannon, whether mounted in a turret or on a pivot, has an internal recoil system that buffers the recoil. (look at the cannon )
If we now assume that this is a self loader, part of the energy would be absorbed additionally by gas diverted to the reload chamber, as is the case in many assault rifles and MG.
So technically it would be possible to absorb most of the recoil, as is already done because otherwise it would put the mounting to additional stress.
One could also assume a recoilless cannon or a rocket projectile where the firing only propels the projectile out of the barrel, after which a rocker is ignited.

And this is all recent weapon technology, and not yet SF
there are nowadys cannon systems that not only balance the recoil, but stay on target when the tank moves
right?
apart from that, the whole construction with stabilyzers, engine, armour etc is heavy enough to counterbalance the gun, side- or central mount.
The real flaw of this thing is the walker concept, IMHO 

but this is SF - I mean, hovering armoured vehicles.....

[Alfrik]

For the Recoil problem of the 88 side mount, possible add some spring looking recoil bit to the back of the gun mount for visual performance?  Just a thought

[Agis]

If you are looking (very careful) at the side shot you will notice just that below the main gun. A hydraulic rod to absorb the recoil!

What about the following explanation (using some of former users wording):
8.8cm KpfK (Kämpfer Kanone) 71: The 8.8cm KpfK (Kämpfer Kanone) 71 used a highly improved internal recoil system to buffer the recoil. Since the gun was self loading, an additional part of the recoil energy was also absorbed by gas diverted to the reload chamber. In addition an external hydraulic recoil absorber was mounted below the gun. The overall system resulted in an almost recoil free main gun system.

[Westfalia Chris]

If you are looking (very careful) at the side shot you will notice just that below the main gun. A hydraulic rod to absorb the recoil!

What about the following explanation (using some of former users wording):
8.8cm KpfK (Kämpfer Kanone) 71: The 8.8cm KpfK (Kämpfer Kanone) 71 used a highly improved internal recoil system to buffer the recoil. Since the gun was self loading, an additional part of the recoil energy was also absorbed by gas diverted to the reload chamber. In addition an external hydraulic recoil absorber was mounted below the gun. The overall system resulted in an almost recoil free main gun system.

I could live with that. It won´t survive the cab rank of Typhoon II jet ground attack planes just closing in on its six, anyway! 

[former user]

regarding the basic instability of the Walker concept, such a sytem as outlined by @Agis would be a must

I don't know anything about the rules, but judging from the models there seem to be a difference between the squatted position and the walking position

maybe this recoil thing could be adressed rulewise, like having to fire from "squatted" for the larger or more powerful calibres??

but still, it is SF, the models look spiffing, and basically there is no need to make it that complicated, unless the rules demand it.

maybe I am mislead, but I've noticed that Kraut gamers seem to be quite concerned with technology, whereas Brit gamers are more concerned with historical accuracy...   (of course incuding me )

anyone share this observation?

[Wirelizard]

I could live with that. It won´t survive the cab rank of Typhoon II jet ground attack planes just closing in on its six, anyway! 

That's always something all this Wierd War goofiness tends to gloss over - if the Germans have all this shiny stuff, the Yanks are going to have stuff at least as shiny, and ten times as much of it! The Brits will have selected bits of shiny Yank kit, some nifty stuff of their own, and terrifying amounts of artillery...

It translates the "11th Sherman problem" into the "11th walker problem" but can't do much else.

(the 11th Sherman problem: One German tank is as good as 10 Shermans. (Supposedly.) The trouble is, there's always an 11th Sherman...)

Still cool models, even if the whole setup requires massive suspension of disbelief!

[Agis]

Voting closed, thanks for participating!

[The Hooded Claw]

Drool....droool......drool...

Agis, might I ask what parts you used for the conversion?

As far as allied weapons for WWW2 that is always a HUGE problem for me to create in my games. It's easy to get away wit hcrazy mad science with Germans, Japanese, and Russians - they were all looney.

However, the Americans and the Brits seemed to go for a more simple apporach to hardware. Also, a lot of the more "evil" mad science is right out the door. Still more, thematically speaking, the allies have always been depicted as having their real quality in the character of the soldiers and not their hardware.

Anyhow, great model. And I just happen to have an Uller who lent its arms to a Donner conversion.

-Eli