Q: Nort & Souther Transfers / Decals (Rogue Trooper)

[cheetor]

There was some discussion regarding gaming Rogue Trooper on this thread recently and I have been finding it hard to ignore the possiblilities that it presents.  There are a variety of suitable figures available from many sources and I think that the project has loads of potential.

As a result, I have a feeling that Rogue Trooper may bubble to the surface of my gigantic vat of "Upcoming Projects" in the short to medium term.  With that in mind I am wondering about a suitable sheet of transfers, covering Nort/Souther icons and insignia small enough to fit on a 28mm backpack right up to big enough to adorn a Blackmare (GW Baneblade) tank.

I have neither the experience nor the facilities to create or print my own decal sheet, I dont even know where to start.  With that in mind I was wondering how feasible it would be to get a small amount of transfer sheets printed up.  I was hoping that if there was interest from other LAFers that the cost of getting a sheet or two for anyone interested would be reasonable (although as I said, I really have no experience with this stuff and so I dont really even have a ballpark notion of the costs involved).

Is this a feasible plan?  Does anyone have any details or experience regarding this sort of thing?

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Svennn]

I have made my own decals many times, I recently did these sashimono banners


The only problem I see is if you need white in  the design. If you screen print or use a fancy a printer ou can use white ink but on home computers you cannot. Some designs can be fudged by using white decal paper but only if the design will allow.

If you pay for the decal paper I am willing to have a go.

[Westfalia Chris]

There was some discussion regarding gaming Rogue Trooper on this thread recently and I have been finding it hard to ignore the possiblilities that it presents.  There are a variety of suitable figures available from many sources and I think that the project has loads of potential.

As a result, I have a feeling that Rogue Trooper may bubble to the surface of my gigantic vat of "Upcoming Projects" in the short to medium term.  With that in mind I am wondering about a suitable sheet of transfers, covering Nort/Souther icons and insignia small enough to fit on a 28mm backpack right up to big enough to adorn a Blackmare (GW Baneblade) tank.

I have neither the experience nor the facilities to create or print my own decal sheet, I dont even know where to start.  With that in mind I was wondering how feasible it would be to get a small amount of transfer sheets printed up.  I was hoping that if there was interest from other LAFers that the cost of getting a sheet or two for anyone interested would be reasonable (although as I said, I really have no experience with this stuff and so I dont really even have a ballpark notion of the costs involved).

Is this a feasible plan?  Does anyone have any details or experience regarding this sort of thing?

Thanks in advance for any info.

It´s not that complicated. I recently did a large (caA4) sheet which I then split with one of my gaming buddies:



I used a graphics program to do a high-resolution sheet, then printed on decal sheet using a Canon inkjet printer. After this had dried in a dust-free environment, I put on two subsequent coats of glossy spray varnish (GW, since that one was readily available and we had good experience with it). I haven´t yet used my part of the sheet (the right side, which I did for my "pseudosovietized" GW Valkyrie), but my buddy and his artist girlfriend used another sheet done for a project of hers (not pictured) and produced in the same way, and he told me it worked out perfectly.

Downsides with this method:

1. Unless buying the "white" variety of the decal sheet, you cannot print white colours and derivatives, and any "light" colours like yellow and red will probably look a bit murky if applied to dark surfaces. You can add a paint highlight to those areas afterwards, though, to counter that problem, or only use such decals on said light paintjobs, or design the decals to mainly use darker colours.

2. You have to invest quite some time into cutting out the individual details, since it is a single big layer on top of the carrying paper. Not problematic if your decals have straight edges, but with rounded or circular ones, this can be quite tricky; we tried a hole-punch used to punch papers for ringbinders, but this gives only one diameter. Therefore, you MIGHT struggle with the circular shoulder patches for the Norts and Southers. This, however, might also be a problem if the professional printer does not print the "decal film" in individual pieces but rather prints decals on a single layer of film (which GW did for a number of years now, although I haven´t seen recent models, so they *might* have changed back, but I doubt it).

3. Creating the decal is not that problematic if it´s only got simple shapes. A vector graphic program is the best option if sending them out to a printer, but if you do it at home, any decent graphics software will do, provided it allows for higher resolution (300dpi upwards). I´ve done some RT logos before, so they´re actually rather easy and could be done in a variety of sizes. Add to that some vehicle numbering and maybe slogans etc., and you´ll have an 8x11 or A4 sheet filled in no time.

Unfortunately, the source from which we got the decal paper does not seem to offer them anymore, but it was from an American company, and the quality was very good. I´ll try to ask my buddy if he remembers the maker, but I think any "brand" name should work.

[cheetor]

If you pay for the decal paper I am willing to have a go.

That sounds good, thanks!

Depending on how much decal paper costs of course, I have no idea...

1. Unless buying the "white" variety of the decal sheet, you cannot print white colours and derivatives, and any "light" colours like yellow and red will probably look a bit murky if applied to dark surfaces. You can add a paint highlight to those areas afterwards, though, to counter that problem, or only use such decals on said light paintjobs, or design the decals to mainly use darker colours.

Is it possible to render the white areas in a light grey (or beige or whatever colour uses the least white), which could then be painted over with a little white once the transfer is in place, essentially using the base colour almost as a shading base coat?  Would doing that get around the problem of white actually becoming "clear" once printed?  Or do most of the white derivatives simply have to many white elements for that to work?

2. You have to invest quite some time into cutting out the individual details ... you MIGHT struggle with the circular shoulder patches for the Norts and Southers.

That sound excruciating and probably more trouble than it is worth.  Apart from the resources required to do something like this (printer, graphics program, savvy with said graphics program, suitable decal sheets etc) this sounds like the biggest stumbling block to me. 
Although I used to do it quite a bit in the past I am unwilling to spend hour upon hour to get a perfect effect these days (too many projects and not enough time really.  I have gone for quantity over quality over the last few years).  This issue makes it look like a slightly imperfect hand painted version of the symbol, while also time consuming, may give a better efffect in less time.  Hmmm...

I´ve done some RT logos before, so they´re actually rather easy and could be done in a variety of sizes. Add to that some vehicle numbering and maybe slogans etc., and you´ll have an 8x11 or A4 sheet filled in no time.

I would love to see (or possibly even use, if you were willing) the RT logos that you made up, if that isnt too much trouble.


Thanks to both of you for your input

[Westfalia Chris]

That sounds good, thanks!

Depending on how much decal paper costs of course, I have no idea...

Depends on the source, but usually, you pay around 10-12 Dollars for a pack of 10 for transparent film.

Is it possible to render the white areas in a light grey (or beige or whatever colour uses the least white), which could then be painted over with a little white once the transfer is in place, essentially using the base colour almost as a shading base coat?  Would doing that get around the problem of white actually becoming "clear" once printed?  Or do most of the white derivatives simply have to many white elements for that to work?

The problem with that is that inkjet printers compose their colours of four types of ink, namely cyan (blue), magenta (red), yellow (duh!) and black, which is called the CMYK (K for blacK or "kontrast) colour model (as opposed to RGB, where colours made from light are concerned). This is to say that there is no "white ink", since the white in white printouts is actually the white paper.

Using a "light grey" would mean printing a fine dot pattern of black ink on the area in question, so it would only be dark. You could use yellow for this purpose, which, depending on the paint beneath, would probably turn out some khaki or murky mustard. You could then highlight this, which I´ve done previously and is not that difficult (if restricted to a comparatively small number of models, that is).

That sound excruciating and probably more trouble than it is worth.  Apart from the resources required to do something like this (printer, graphics program, savvy with said graphics program, suitable decal sheets etc) this sounds like the biggest stumbling block to me. 
Although I used to do it quite a bit in the past I am unwilling to spend hour upon hour to get a perfect effect these days (too many projects and not enough time really.  I have gone for quantity over quality over the last few years).  This issue makes it look like a slightly imperfect hand painted version of the symbol, while also time consuming, may give a better efffect in less time.  Hmmm...

"Excruciating" might be too strong a word. I could whip up a decal sheet in short time (mainly because the basic icons are very simple, and numbers would be done using a type tool). It would then be a matter of printing (5 minutes), drying (best: 12-24 hours), and varnishing (another 24 hours drying time to be on the safe side). Of course, you´ll need a decent colour printer or someone to print them for you and send them to your place.

I have to say, though, that I would personally prefer the painting method, especially since I would not have the project involve more than a platoon for each side, and 20-30 icons can be painted with reasonable effort; afterall, the symbols ARE rather simple.

I would love to see (or possibly even use, if you were willing) the RT logos that you made up, if that isnt too much trouble.

PM sent (for reasons explained in said PM).

[cheetor]

Depends on the source, but usually, you pay around 10-12 Dollars for a pack of 10 for transparent film.

Very affordable.

Using a "light grey" would mean printing a fine dot pattern of black ink on the area in question, so it would only be dark. You could use yellow for this purpose, which, depending on the paint beneath, would probably turn out some khaki or murky mustard. You could then highlight this, which I´ve done previously and is not that difficult (if restricted to a comparatively small number of models, that is).

I figured that there may be a "fudge" like that that might work.  If I were to go the decal route I think that that might be a way to approach it.

"Excruciating" might be too strong a word.

Almost certainly.  It was early in the morning sitting at my desk at work when I wrote that.  You might be surprised how many things that are normally quite achievable seem excruciating in that environment
Please forgive the hyperbole.

I have to say, though, that I would personally prefer the painting method, especially since I would not have the project involve more than a platoon for each side, and 20-30 icons can be painted with reasonable effort; afterall, the symbols ARE rather simple.

Your RT plans are similar to mine it appears: <10 GIs, ~10 Nort/Souther grunts, a handful of personalities for each side and a couple of vehicles depending on what I can dig up at the time.  Like you say, the hand painted route is probably the way to go.

Thanks for the time taken to thrash this one out guys!

[Westfalia Chris]

Very affordable.

I figured that there may be a "fudge" like that that might work.  If I were to go the decal route I think that that might be a way to approach it.


Almost certainly.  It was early in the morning sitting at my desk at work when I wrote that.  You might be surprised how many things that are normally quite achievable seem excruciating in that environment
Please forgive the hyperbole.

Your RT plans are similar to mine it appears: <10 GIs, ~10 Nort/Souther grunts, a handful of personalities for each side and a couple of vehicles depending on what I can dig up at the time.  Like you say, the hand painted route is probably the way to go.

Thanks for the time taken to thrash this one out guys!

I would not go so far as to rule out the decal approach wholesale. As for individual infantry, I´ve always been very reluctant to add detail by decal (used to to a lot of GW back in the days of yore), mainly because it´s tricky to properly apply to irregular surfaces, but also because the decals would be easily rubbed off even if properly sealed in the gloss varnish - decal - gloss varnis - matte varnish sequence.

It is, however, far easier to use decals for larger variants of icons/crests, simply because it is terribly difficult to produce a clean image by brush (unless you can stencil and airbrush it). As for vehicles, I would indeed consider printing a sheet of insignia icons and numbers, because that will almost always look far better than a hand-painted version. This said, I plan to visit my local Hobbycraft store tomorrow for some plasticard (that "Build Something" bug finally got to me and I´ve found a theme which is both appealing, doable with reasonable work and time effort and useful for a current project), and I´ll be looking out for decal sheets for my personal use (planning to do some Spanish aircraft with rather peculiar markings AND roundels). If they have some, I´ll be happy to do a sheet for you and send it over to Ireland (can´t be that expensive for a light envelope, and we can work out some sort of remuneration later.

[cheetor]

Very kind!  One of (the few) disadvantage to living where I do in the middle of the peaceful countryside is that I dont get the opportunity to browse through well stocked shops full of handy bits and pieces as often as I would like.

As you say, if you do happen to spot something that seems apt then I am sure that we can arrange something favourable to both of us.  Nice one.