Old West town population topic question

[FifteensAway]

So, from time to time a topic will pop up about just what buildings do you need in an Old West town.  I want to posit a rather different question:

How many people - exclusive of the primary combatants in a scenario - should there be in a town with, say, 20 buildings?

I know in most games the population of non-combatants tends to be pretty low - likely a result of cost of figures and time and effort to get painted and based, especially for the unarmed figures. But if such were not an issue (cost and time) how many people per building seems to be right?

I figure there is not a definitive answer but there must be some sort of average; not necessarily in the 'real world' but certainly in the gaming world.  Or maybe there might be three 'levels' of population - a boom town, a 'steady' town, and a dying town.

So, how say you folk on this topic?  How many people per building seems right to you for an Old West game town?

And thanks for participating.

[ithoriel]

I have no idea why I bookmarked this, I don't remember planning a miniature Wild West town, but it might give you a good start.


https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com/questions/159/population-range-for-a-booming-dying-frontier-town

[FifteensAway]

Yes, I actually saw that article - but it doesn't address the question I'm afraid.  The question relates to figures per building in a miniatures game setting.  Or maybe buildings per figure I suppose.  Decent article for a real world town but doesn't translate directly to a game.

So in a theoretical table top town of 20 buildings, how many figures would be the right number to populate the town over and above the 'combatants' in the scenario being played (could be a bank robbery, a range war, whatever)?  And, again, without the limit of cost to buy the figures and time spent to paint them.  I already have a ridiculous number of figures to populate my towns, just need to paint them.  Delving towards deciding how many I should paint to get the ball rolling.  Maybe that helps explain what I am after better - hopefully.  There is no "wrong" answer, just wondering where others would land. 

Given larger families of the time and say half the buildings having a domicile included maybe 70 figures?  Is that too large, too small?  And would that be the right number of domiciles.  Maybe that is a precursor question - what percentage of an Old West town would be residences?

[fred]

I’m no expert on this - but some thoughts

I think virtually all buildings would be residences as well as shops (or exclusively residences). Today in the UK most smaller shops have residences above them (though now less often occupied by the shopkeeper)

I’d think 2-4 adult civilians per building would be fair number (which is close to your thinking of 70 for 20 buildings). Some buildings could be much higher (eg a bunk house or saloon)

If there is shooting happening I think a lot of the civilians would disappear from the streets very quickly.

I’d also consider what role you want the civilians to play in the game.

[FifteensAway]

Point about civilians ducking for cover is well taken but I think about the end sequence gun battle in Open Range and the eyewitness accounts from the real life Coffeeville raid - as I recall there were a lot eyewitness accounts.  So, sure, civilians will duck for cover - and some may join the fray - but some will let their fascination get the better of them and watch what is going on.  But civilians do need to be roaming about prior to the action for me to give a sense of a "real town" even if most of them will duck and run for it once the shooting starts.

And another thought - once the shooting has stopped there may be rescue attempts which may determine who lives or not for a follow-on game.  So, the action might not stop quite so fast just because the shooting does.  Might make for an interesting additional dimension in a game. 

[Daeothar]

My guestimation would be:

4

[CapnJim]

I'm with fred on this.  Small downtowns across the US have buildings with a shop/office on the ground floor,and residence(s) on the upper floor(s). 

Although, I would add that of that 70-80 civilians, several would be minors of various ages.  Couples back them tended to have a number of kids, as the mortality rate for kids was still relatively high.

[FifteensAway]

On the mortality rate for kids: in Bodie, CA - a state park and real ghost town - the most poignant part of it all for me was at the undertaker building was the sheer numbers of child sized coffins.  And that leads me to think in terms of creating some child sized coffins to go along with the adult sized ones I already have - or maybe find some 10 mm sized ones.

I do have quite a few kids to populate my Old West - but too much duplication, not a lot of 15 mm children out there but some, just have to think a bit outside the box and go to other than Old West ranges.

In those hordes of civilians I have, men greatly outnumber the women and the women greatly outnumber the children. 

Another - and perhaps understandable omission in 15 mm - is casualties for women and children.  They just aren't out there.  Perhaps, again, a search for 10 mm might fill some blanks.  (There are two dead women in Bluemoon horror range for Jack the Ripper I believe - that's all I know of for female dead)

[Inkpaduta]

That is a good question. One thing I have always found funny in westerners is there are no homes.
Just businesses. Where do these people live? If you have 20 buildings and they are all businesses then
I would say the population would be fairly small.

[FifteensAway]

In movies there is a solid reason the populations are always small - it costs to have background players (extras) who have to be fed, clothed, and paid; that adds up really fast.  But that doesn't really - generally - translate to the 'real world.' 

Just a very rough ball park but I'd expect 100 extras for one day to cost about $20,000 US - and probably more including costumes.

I've heard the way movie productions fill stadiums is something like a car giveaway to get people to attend - a heck of lot cheaper to give away a $50,000 car than to pay 10,000 extras!

[NickNascati]

I’m doing the Old West once again.  For townsfolk, I’ve decided to go cheap and abstract.  I’m using chess pawns, blue for males, pink for females.  Also going to using chess knights as horses.  Weird maybe, but it works for me.

[Khusru2]

Perhaps the nuclear family +. Two adults per building and half the buildings having 1-4 children. Dice for each family.

[S J Donovan]

Besides the town population you might also think about the rural pop that comes to town to buy whatever.  Using Bodie as an example:
Bodie, CA in 1880, at least three years after founding had 7-10,000 pop. with approximately 2,000 buildings.
You might be able to find the information by questioning your computer with a real town to ask what the population was during a census year.  You should also be able to get to the actual census information with the same question.  Wikipedia, may be of some help?

[FifteensAway]

Nick, curious approach with the chess pieces. Certainly avoids the painting time dilemma.  For me, personally, defeats the whole aesthetic of using miniatures but to each our own.  And, yes, despite my promoting 'adequate' paint jobs, I still greatly value the 'look of the thing'.  But I see the value of your idea for some.

Khusru, that is a simple and workable formula.

SJ, yes, of course, that works - and thanks for the leg work on Bodie.  It supports Khusru's formula.  And I really like the thought on out of towners; I have quite a few of what I call "environs" groupings for just such - stage station, trading post, ranchers, miners, etc. 

By the way, an essential part of my promoting adequate - as opposed to artistic level - paint jobs is to let newer entrants into our little hobby feel that they can be proud of their efforts and not be embarrassed if they are not the best painters.  We'd all love 'best' paint jobs, we just don't all have that level of talent - and that shouldn't interfere with the great fun the hobby can be.

Feel free to continue the discussion but I think I have what I need so thanks to those who responded.

[snitcythedog]

Just throwing my two cents into the conversation.  The ratio of men to women to children per building may be difficult to work out. 

Boom towns tended to be very male dominated with a low proportion of women.  In some cases the tent cities that sprung up could house five to ten men (or more) in each tent. 

Established towns built around farming communities would settle down to a more normal ratio of male to female but with a higher number of children (going back to the mortality rate for children discussion). 

You also should think about a transient population for your setting.  There was a lot of coming and going both from the outskirts of the community and from further afield be it miners/prospectors, farmers, traders or ranchers.  This could increase your male population dramatically especially during major events.  If you set a game during say, an election, the whole male population could double or triple.